Well, there you have it folks, irrefutable scientific proof of what we’ve secretly known all along. Black people are less intelligent than White people. This latest confirmation comes from no less an intellectual giant than Dr. James Watson, winner of the Nobel Prize in 1962 for his role in discovering the molecular structure of DNA. It looks like the guy who said stupidity is a genetic disease that should be cured should be his own first guinea pig.
Apparently, Dr. Watson said in an interview with the Sunday Times that he was “inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa” because “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours—whereas all the testing says not really.” CNN online also reports:
In the newspaper interview, he said there was no reason to think that races which had grown up in separate geographical locations should have evolved identically. He went on to say that although he hoped everyone was equal, “people who have to deal with black employees find this not true.”
Dr. Watson, it seems, has a history of making insensitive and inflammatory comments. The online edition of Scientific American has compiled a list of Watson’s other foot-in-mouth utterances.
- After showing images of women in bikinis and veiled muslim women, he suggested that there is a link between exposure to sunlight and libido. Then he said, “That’s why you have Latin lovers. You’ve never heard of an English lover. Only an English patient.”
- After showing a picture of Kate Moss, he asserted that thin people are unhappy and therefore ambitious. “Whenever you interview fat people, you feel bad, because you know you’re not going to hire them.”
- Fat people may also be more sexual, Watson asserted, because their bloodstreams contain higher levels of leptin.
- “If you are really stupid, I would call that a disease. The lower 10 percent who really have difficulty, even in elementary school, what’s the cause of it? A lot of people would like to say, ‘Well, poverty, things like that.’ It probably isn’t. So I’d like to get rid of that, to help the lower 10 per cent.”
Like all prejudiced people, Dr. Watson tends to be well-rounded in his bigotry, as shown by a trail of sexist remarks. According to Charlotte Hunt-Grubbe, who worked for Watson in the late ’90s, he often found himself the target of feminists’ ire for insensitive statements he made about women’s appearance and personality. Hunt-Grubbe also writes that Watson was accused of using data gathered by Rosalind Frankin, a colleague and fellow researcher, without her knowledge and without sufficiently acknowledging the contribution of her data to his own discovery. By the time Watson and his male colleagues won the Nobel Prize, Franklin had already passed away from ovarian cancer. Lest this be passed off as a one-off incident, New Scientist publishes this Watson gem on their website: ”People say it would be terrible if we made all girls pretty. I think it would be great.”
For a guy who is so critical of others, Dr. Watson sure has a lot of work to do on his own personality and attitudes. I would write more but being from Africa, I’m clearly not intelligent enough to do so. Instead, I’ll just agree with my man Scooter when he says, “Less work on the DNA double helix and more work on the common sense gene.”
oooh… this reminds me of a torah scholar i once met who insisted in his infinite learned wisdom that the jewish soul is superior to that of the gentile as it consists of three parts more than the traditional 5 that every person posesses. not that it’s any reason to discriminate against all gentiles, he said. merely irrefutable proof of superiority. that’s all.
Well I’ll be damned. Glad to know this. I guess my superior Jewish soul balances out my inferior African intellect.
I think Dr. Watson is guilty of nothing but lacking tact. His points are valid and not necessarily racist. I think most people who have any knowledge of history would agree that the ancient Greek and Roman societies were far more technologically advanced than any other societies of that time. If we are to beleive that human intellect evolved at exactly the same ratedespite race and geography, than there would be overwhelming evidence that Africans made similar advances in enginerring and science during the same era as the Greeks and Romans. Unfortunatley, the historical evidence shows that this did not happen in Africa. So we need to ask ourselves why this didn’t happen in Africa. In 2000 B.C. the failure of Africans to make intellectual advances was ceratinly not due to racism. They were the only race in Africa.
I’m not putting forth this argument to sound like a racist. I just think that we have no chance of fixing the problems that face Afican Americans if we ignore this issue of intellect.
ell about the greeks and romans nick, I simply believe it to be an issue of era and time period. The arabs were far more advanced in thier time period than pre industrial Europeans much like egypt was. Also, such technological advancements seen in Europe simply need the proper social setting. An increase in the putting out system and the cottage industry. Africa along with other continents did not have the settings needed for industry. What about the mayans for example? YEARS ahead of any European of that time scientifically, but the Europeans did not have similar religions or prerequisites for such technology. Simply put, the Europeans were first to industrialize but not because they are the best, simply because they happened to be the first.
Well I guess SOMEONE should point out to the premier geneticist Mr. Watson that since race doesn’t exist biologically, he needs specifiy exactly which ethnic-group or kline of blacks he’s referring to. Oh, my bad, as a scientist he hasn’t taken the time to even think that far ahead before making assinine statements! Is this really the 21st century?
Nick, you might not intend to sound like a racist but you’re certainly coming across as one.
First off, the definition of intelligence is vague. People think intelligence is a measure of knowledge or technical ability and most “tests” of intelligence focus on this. However, there is always a cultural and geographical context for this. You do what you need to survive and not much more. The ancient Greeks and Romans did what they needed to do to survive. Their “technology” was both home-grown and borrowed. Take the chariot, for example, a major component of the Greek and Roman armies, which was adopted from the Egyptians. As for the “Africans” you refer to, I can only assume you mean Black Africans or sub-Saharan Africans. The fact that generations of Africans survived, traded, made music, created art, and basically thrived south of the Sahara is proof of their intelligence. Why produce machines when there’s an abundance of manual labor? Of course, there were lots of other social, cultural, and economic constraints that affect innovation and the production of new technology but basically, you produce what you need. People who live in cold climates might show more “intelligence” when it comes to staying warm and not freezing to death. Likewise, imperial cultures like the ancient Greek and Roman societies will show more “intelligence” and innovation in machinery, weaponry, water delivery systems, etc.—all necessary for providing for and protecting a lot of people scattered over a wide territory. Nomadic peoples, then, would have had less need for armies and heavy machines since they have to pick up and go. Does this make them less “intelligent”? I don’t think so but, based on your comment, I assume you do.
So, Nick, to answer your question, you are equating “intelligence” with the ability to build machines and urban infrastructure, products of a very different geographical and cultural environment. Of course, art and literature flow out of the social and economic changes produced by that sort of urban society but that’s another issue. AND nomadic or other non-urban societies also produce art and literature. However, ask yourself this: “If the Greek and Romans were so ‘intelligent,’ how come they never conquered the Sahara desert or the dense tropical jungles south of the Sahara?” Don’t forget that there were thriving societies in both these areas. Why don’t you look at is from this standpoint, that these people were MORE intelligent than the Greeks and Romans because THEY were able to build successful societies in these harsh environments?
And, for what it’s worth, you’ve clearly never heard about the great urban societies of sub-Saharan Africa, North, Central, and South America, the Middle East and Asia. If you had, you wouldn’t say something as ignorant as “the ancient Greek and Roman societies were far more technologically advanced than any other societies of that time.” Clearly, you’ve never heard about Dahomey, the Congo Kingdoms, the Futa Djallon Kingdoms, or any of the other great urban societies in sub-Saharan Africa, further proof of your ignorance.
Moreover, you talk about race as if it were something real. You’ve probably been raised to believe that the ancient Greeks and Romans were “White” in the same way the English or Germans are. It’s not the case at all. The ancient Greeks and Romans were a lot closer to North Africa and the Middle East in their culture, religious belief and practice, etc. Again, you are relying on an arbitrary and frankly racist reading of history. Hannibal and St. Augustine were both from what is today Tunisia. St. Anthony lived in a cave in Egypt. Yet these men have all been claimed by Western society and “Whitened” so racists can convince themselves that all the great thinkers of the classical period were White.
A little knowledge is indeed a terrible thing.
And let’s not forget the expropriation of all white expropriations, Jesus Christ himself. At any rate, thank you Abdul. The only point I wanted to make, which you have in essence, is that while Nick or Mr. Watson may not want to come off as racist, they are unmistakably and absolutely ethnocentrist. Western society bases its measure of other cultures on its own values (machinery, technology). Humans inevitably value what their own culture excels at, and excel at what their own culture values. Measuring another culture by these same values is self-serving. It’s like me saying “I’m the best at tennis, therefore, because no one else is as good at tennis as I am, I am the best of all people.” Ridiculous. That said, as Abdul pointed out, Western society still is not the shining beacon of intelligence and technology it pretends to be. It’s simply the culture that’s been writing the history books for the past century.
Thank you, Derrick.
Two more points for Nick.
First, only an ignorant person would try to equate Black Africans with Black Americans simply based on skin color. Black Americans have been in the New World for so long that they have much more in common with White Americans than they do with Black Africans. For someone like Nick, however, skin color takes primacy so whatever factors limit Black Africans’ and Black Americans’ “intelligence” must be based solely on skin color, not poverty, disenfranchisement, malnourishment, etc.
Secondly, I’m curious about the studies Dr. Watson alludes to. Who was studied? Poor, rural “Africans” or wealthy, well-educated urban Africans? I come from an upper-class background in Sierra Leone and I had a fantastic education in Africa and the guys I went to school with are all super intelligent, super hard-working, and now super successful in their chosen professions. I challenge anyone to test our “intelligence.” Likewise, I can go to any number of economically deprived rural or urban communities in the United States and test any number of poor and poorly educated people and prove that White people are less intelligent than Africans.
The problem with people like Nick and Dr. Watson is that when they look at people, they see only skin color (i.e., race) and ignore all other factors like economics, class, culture, etc. That’s why they think that Africans’ “lack of ‘intelligence’” is somehow related to Black Americans’ “lack of ‘intelligence.’” After all, they have the same skin color, right, so they MUST be the same.
It’s disappointing that someone like Dr. Watson still holds such archaic and outdated notions. After all, genetically speaking, there is MORE diversity on the African continent than there is in the entire rest of the human population because the African populations are older and their genes have had much more time to mutate. This means that a “British” person is more genetically similar to a “Chinese” person than two Africans from neighboring tribes. If there is a biological or genetic basis for race (and I maintain there isn’t), then there would be many more different “races” on the African continent than there are in the rest of the world. However, because racism and race theory are based on morphological difference (skin color, hair texture, physical stature), real genetic and cultural differences are overlooked or deliberately ignored in favor of a totalizing approach that focuses exclusively on people’s physical attributes.
Consequently, ignorant people like Nick can convince themselves that Black Africans and Black Americans are, after all, one and the same.
Empty vessels make the most noise! Nick & Watson (no Dr. in my eyes, or else he would have known better; but I guess thats a different story) seems to be empty intellectually thats why they made commments like the ones they did. I work w/ different races of people on a daily basis and by far whites are not the smartest-just very good at pretending/faking/make believe.
Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy learning about different cultures/races and by far is not racist-after all my spouse is bi-racial. But it saddens me when minorities, especially blacks are constantly being verbally attacked for belonging to a “DIFFERENT race and culture”. When people are sad they hurt the same. Hurt knows no color, race, gender and certainly has no intellectual ability, unless I’m not smart enough to notice.
Please people, think before you speak!
This is very interesting. If Dr. Watson and Nick’s comments are true, then I guess the Chinese are more intelligent than the whites because they were the first to develop explosives and some of the first weapons that are still being used today like guns, bombs, ballistic missiles. Anyways, both Dr. Watson and Nick don’t realize the importance of trade, culture and social environments. Obviously they have never been to Africa either.
And it really anion me when people still think Africa is one big country.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I think the main reason why the northerners (middle east, Europe, Asia) became more advanced during the A.C. period is their cultural belief about education (mainly because of religion) and trade. They also had to do it to survive all the wars that are still going on today.
I totally agree with K’s Comment to “Think before you speak.” People don’t realize that even comments making fun of someone who smell bad can be devastating to others. There are some people who have generic disorder or illness that cause them to emit foul odor. Imagine how horrible and embarrassing that would be if you had that problem.
Watson is a nincompoop. First, how are we defining intelligence ? Through standardized test scores and grades earned in school…. Please, that relates more to socilogical conditions than genetic factors. Family structure, income and environmental conditions influence and help shape what we call “intelligence”.
Now if Watson said, “Blacks score lower on standardized test and get lower grades in class due to unequal access, institutional racism and other uncontrolable environmental factors”. I would probably have to agree because that would be a truer statement, especially given the sociopolitical climate in this country.
Watson sounds like an old, sex pervert that probably visits Thailand quarterly to get his fix from little brown boys. He totally fits the profile.
And Nick, please do some reading, it’s obvious that you need to read Stolen Legacy by George G.M. James. That’s your start point, I gurantee you’ll be surprised.
People like Watson really don’t even deserve press coverage.
Likewise, I can go to any number of economically deprived rural or urban communities in the United States and test any number of poor and poorly educated people and prove that White people are less intelligent than Africans.
who is the ignorant now?? ha?? who is the ignorant?? you messed up at the end,sierra leone boy!
just look at germans, after the second world war they were ruined and now are the greatest country in the world, and than look at sudan or other african countries they are still organized in tribes, like the afro-americans here all they know is shooting each other.
Lucian,
Sounds to me like you’re grasping at straws in an attempt to make me look stupid. I’m not even sure what you’re referring to but I guess I should probably have used quotation marks around “prove” and “intelligent” in the sentence you referenced.
So let’s try that again. Hopefully this’ll make my meaning more clear:
Likewise, I can go to any number of economically deprived rural or urban communities in the United States and test any number of poor and poorly educated people and “prove” that White people are less “intelligent” than Africans.
There. Is that better?
And what’s up with the poor grammar? “who is the ignorant now?? who is the ignorant??”
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume English is not your first language. For future reference, though, in English, you don’t use an article (“a/an” or “the”) before an adjective if the adjective stands alone. So for example, you should never say something like “Who is THE ignorant now” because there’s no noun after the adjective (“ignorant”). However, it’s perfectly correct to say “Who is ignorant now (without “the”) OR “Who is the ignorant PERSON now (with a noun after the adjective). And, of course, you should know to use capital letters at the start of a sentence.
Dr Watson just made a wonderful discovery. He deserves a new Nobel prize for Racism.
There are no suprises here, we live in time of controversy.
It appears it always a convienent pratice to mock ethnic minorities & women for shock value especially blacks the PROBLEM RACE.
Dr Watson is not saying anything new which we haven’t already heard about black peoples, the difference is that he has openly brough it to debate again. We all know blacks run faster , have higher libidos, have lower IQ all based on scientific thesis/ explanations by eminent white scholars/scientists.
Intriguingly, white people always seem to the persons espouing these stories, we never hear eminent black scholar/ scientist making prouncements on biological race differences between white’s and blacks .
One wonder whether these prouncements and therories has any thing to do with insecurities and ignorance of a few racist bigots
It’s funny that so many people claim speaking out against this man’s statements is an attempt at being politically correct. In the science world, as any scientists knows you don’t make a claim that you don’t already have sufficient evidence to back up and you look at all the facts. He obviously didn’t. All these scientists today with fancy equipment and high priced laboratories still can’t rebuild a pyramid built without all of that.
I’d also point out that it’s funny he mentions Black and White people with no mention of Asian, indigenous, or any other groups. This alone shows his way of thinking when it comes to Black people. He lets his negative views towards them influence his scientific work and therefore makes baseless claims, which haven’t been proven even to the most minimal extent.
Someone needs to tell him to read up on who it was that brought Europe out of the Dark Ages.
Define “intelligence.” All the research is proving is that whites are better adapted to a eurocentric definition of intelligence. Develop an afrocentric IQ test and let’s see who does better…
To nick,
In 2000, the eminent professor shocked a scientific audience at the University of California at Berkeley by making connections between skin colour and sex drive.
He said that a chemical called pom-C, which produces melanin, also affected other factors including sex drive and weight, and made a correlation between sun exposure and libido. This was why black people and Latinos had reputations as lovers — something, he said, of which the English could not be accused. Bizarrely, he also came to the conclusion that fat people were less ambitious than thin ones. “Whenever you interview fat people, you feel bad because you know you’re not going to hire them,” he said.
He is also an advocate of abortion where genetic screening reveals undesirable traits.
In 1997, he even said a woman should be allowed to abort a foetus if tests had shown it would be a homosexual and the mother deemed this undesirable.
It is fitting that a scientist with such controversial views has worked in the most controversial science of our time — genetics.
so how is this finding different from his current stupid comment?
please answer me nick.
So you might think this a very inappropriate time for some 79-year-old white professor to be digging up long disproved theories of black racial inferiority.
But American scientist Dr James Watson has been all over the British newspapers with his theory that black people are less intelligent than white people.
He went on to say that he hoped that everyone was equal, but that “People who have to deal with black employees find this is not true.”
He has been taken seriously because he is a Nobel Prize winner. But he was awarded his Nobel Prize nearly 50 years ago. In more recent years he has a history of unpleasant remarks about race, gender and sexuality.
In 2001, he wrote an article for a German newspaper advocating diagnostic tests early in pregnancy for untreatable diseases such as Tay-Sachs. He made it clear that he thought such children should be aborted. But Tay-Sachs is a condition that is restricted to Jews.
Steven Rose, a professor of biological sciences at the Open University, said of Watson’s most recent outburst about black people: “This is Watson at his most scandalous. He has said similar things about women before, but I have never heard him get into this racist terrain. If he knew the literature in the subject, he would know that he was out of his depth scientifically, quite apart from socially and politically.”
But there is a long history of racist pseudo-science about black intelligence. In 1855, the US secretary of state, John C Calhoun, argued that “Scientific confirmation is proof of the necessity of slavery. The African is incapable of self-care and sinks into lunacy under the burden of freedom. It is a mercy to give him the guardianship and protection from mental death.”
A 19th century British psychologist, Sir Francis Galton, estimated that black people were “two grades” below white people in general mental ability. He was just one of a whole generation of scientists who peddled notions of black intellectual inferiority.
They often argued that black people literally had smaller brains. As late as 1916 a scientist called Lewis Terman wrote: “Black children are uneducable beyond the nearest rudiments of training. No amount of school instruction will ever make them intelligent voters or capable citizens in the sense of the world. Their dullness seems to be racial, or at least inherent in the family stock from which they come.”
theories about black intellectual inferiority obviously strike a chord with the British. Otherwise his remarks could not have been taken as seriously as they were.
Dr Watson’s words will be forgotten before all the leaves have fallen from the trees and Christmas draws near. But many notions of inherent black inferiority still linger on in the British psyche.
Mightyminnow
I too was fascinated by this gentleman when reading the Times UK and mused if I should write about him. He was afterall suggesting I was a dimwit.
Does mixed race give me an edge?
On the other hand is he being completely misunderstood!
Hi, I work for BBC World Service radio on an international discussion programme called, World Have Yours Say. Today (Monday) we are discussing what is acceptable debate, in light of the reported comments by Dr James Watson. The programme is on air from 6pm to 7pm London time (1pm to 2pm East Coast Time in the States). If you would be interested in taking part in the discussion, please email me back with your phone numbers to martin.vennard@bbc.co.uk or call me on +442075570635 and I will call you straight back.
Many thanks
Martin Vennard
Gomez, completely misunderstood i think not. He is going exactly the same thing that alot of people have being going in the past. and this attitude is what is responsible for the unachievement of black people in the west today. The idea that blacks are good at sport but can think.
For years societies (especially the west) have being trying to dehumanise africans/black for as long as we could remember. first it as the look, that africans compare to other race are ugly.
It does not come to me as shock that Dr watson or other white person would come with is conclusion. one question, why does comparison studies of different races alway come down to black and white.
This is one of many way in which the Whites promote white superiority over black. we have seen this done over and over again and i can assume you that this is not the last time that a stupid narraow minded, attension seeking man like Dr watson would come up with his own theory about white Superiority over black or any other race for that matter.
i have been to some sites, you should read some of the most ignorant comment made by some white people with respect to Dr watson comments about Africans. it just shows that alot of white people believe this rubbish, and as long as they do, black in the west are in big trouble.
Someone tell me where is the is the scientific evidence to back this findings,
Dr Watson is another idiot, trying what alot of white before him has done.
Mustafa,
Thank you for that response.
I am not surprised that there are still people willing to accept the views of prejudice.
However in order to defeat this type of stupidity we need to allow these morons to voice their views and then academically prove that these views are false.
I a firm believer of free speech.
The fact that Dr Watson has been allowed to return back without being publicly confronted, is, in my opinion allowing him to stir up the flames and depart in safety.
He could just be looking to publicise his book, in which case, he has won.
Or it could be that what he is saying is, that the tests themselves were weighted against the average Black African i.e. the black person would come out with a lower score because it was written from a white and western subjective perspective.
That was one possibility after reading the article however the comments on this article point to a different, eugenics ideal and demonise the old fart, sorry molecular biologist!
Could it not be that a 79 year old,views the world through old prejudiced glasses? In which case he needs a visit a beliefotician.
[...] Because of a post I had written last week about Dr. James Watson’s statements (see this posting and the associated comments), I was invited to be a guest on the BBC’s “World Have [...]
I’ve been thinking about the views Dr Watson has presented linking intelligence with race.
(1) The definition of intelligence Dr Watson is basing his views on needs to be understood.
(2) There are a number of definitions of intelligence around which there are arguments as to their appropriateness and validity. That isn’t really the main point at hand – this discussion is not primarily concerned with different definitions of intelligence rather on whether there is or is not a link between Dr Watson’s definition and race. It is important that Dr Watson’s definition is within the set of potentially acceptable definitions.
(3) Dr Watson refers to experimental work that has been carried out and bases his views on his interpretation of the results of that work.
(4) I have not seen anything in this thread which casts scientific doubt either on the experimental work to which Dr Watson refers nor to his interpretation of that work.
(5) Responses which are not based on solid scientific foundations are meaningless – the advancement of knowledge must not be based on anything other than the most reliable experimentally tested hypotheses available at the time.
(6) My understanding of his views is that (a) the difference in intelligence is small but not small enough to be dismissed within the bounds of statistical error and (b) only relevant when considering whole populations.
(7) The difference such as it is could arise from the testing methodology or other socio-economic factors or the bounds of statistical error in this field could be larger than previously thought. Conversely, Dr Watson could actually be correct.
(8) The point on populations as a whole is vital – the lack of understanding of that point is clear in this thread.
(9) Considerations on the utility derived from scientific investigation in this area are missing – just what do we expect to gain from this work and where will it take us? Do we want to be taken to that place?
I am undecided on whether to accept Dr Watson’s views purely on scientific reasons or not. I certainly would not dismiss them on non-scientific grounds. I uphold Dr Watson’s academic freedom to advance his views, based as they are on scientific underpinnings.
This is not an issue of race. If Dr Watson’s views are correct that would simply imply a difference between certain populations. Differences are not the same as inequalities – people can be different but of equal value. This is an issue of science.
Tony, all your points are valid.
However, I must point out again that Dr. Watson did not cite any scientific studies. He used anecdotal evidence about people who have Black employees. Where’s the science there? Secondly, Dr. Watson DID say the races are not equal. Did you see the quote? Here it is again, as reported by CNN: “He went on to say that although he hoped everyone was equal, ‘people who have to deal with black employees find this not true.’”
I’m a strong believer in science and where there is scientific evidence, let it speak for itself. But Dr. Watson does not provide any scientific proof for his speculation on the intelligence of Black people, using only a racist anecdote to prove a racist point. Whether or not Dr. Watson is correct, let science be the proof. In the meantime, I will continue to denounce him. He is living proof that racists and scientists are not mutually exclusive categories.
I repeat that if he had suggested there is an avarice gene which predisposes Jews to greed, he would have been crucified. How many people would have been defending his right to free speech? But because he expressed his racist opinions towards Black people and Africans, he’s being defended. As a Black person, I’m sick and tired of having to defend against racist insinuations that I’m less intelligent or whatever, simply because of my skin color and hair texture. Not a day goes by without someone saying or doing something that disparages, devalues, or even dehumanizes people of color yet we’re expected to stay silent and accept it. Well no more! Scientist or not, Dr. Watson has to be challenged and taken to task for his racism and insensitivity. He’s been getting away with it for too long!
He ceased to be a “living proof” on Oct.26th 2007 [yesterday]
African Immigrants:
African-born blacks comprise 16 percent of the U.S. foreign-born black population and are considerably more educated than other black immigrants (U.S. Bureau of the Census, 2000). The vast majority comes from minority white countries in East and West Africa (e.g. Kenya and Nigeria), and less than 2 percent originate from North or South Africa (World Factbook 2004; Yearbook of immigration Statistics 2003).
In an analysis of Census Bureau data by the Journal of Blacks in higher education African immigrants to the United States were found more likely to be college educated than any other immigrant group. African immigrants to the U.S. are also more highly educated than any native-born ethnic group including white Americans (Logan & Deane, 2003; Dixon, 2006; Journal of Blacks in higher education, 1999-2000; Onwudiwe, 2006; Otiso and Smith, 2005; The Economist, 1996). Some 48.9 percent of all African immigrants hold a college diploma. This is slightly more than the percentage of Asian immigrants to the U.S., nearly double the rate of native-born white Americans, and nearly four times the rate of native-born African Americans (The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, No. 26 (Winter, 1999-2000), pp. 60-61).
In 1997, 19.4 percent of all adult African immigrants in the United States held a graduate degree, compared to 8.1 percent of adult whites and 3.8 percent of adult blacks in the United States, respectively (The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, No. 26 (Winter, 1999-2000), pp. 60-61). This information suggests that America has an equally large achievement gap between whites and African immigrants as there is between white and black Americans.
The Canadian sociological literature on immigrants also paints a similar picture, however, less stark. All visible-minority immigrant groups whether from the Caribbean or India do better academically than their native born (non-visible) cohorts, on average. Both foreign-born and Canadian-born blacks have graduation rates that exceed those of other Canadians. Similar patters of educational over-achievements are reached with years of schooling and with data from the 1994 Statistics Canada survey. (Guppy and Davies, 1998; Boyd, 2002).
In the UK, 1988, the Commission for Racial Equality conducted an investigation on the admissions practices of St. George’s, and other medical colleges, who set aside a certain number of places for minority students. This informal quota system reflected the percentage of minorities in the general population. However, minority students with Chinese, Indian, or black African heritage had higher academic qualifications for university admission than did whites (Blacks in Britain from the West Indies had far lower academic credentials than did whites). In fact, blacks with African origins over the age of 30 had the highest educational qualifications of any ethnic group in the British Isles. Thus, the evidence pointed to the fact that minority quotas for University admissions were actually working against students from these ethnic groups who were on average more qualified for higher education than their white peers (Cross, 1994; Also see, C, Dustmann, N, Theodoropoulos, 2006).
According to the report The State of Working Britain, published by the Centre for Economic Performance at the highly regarded London School of Economics, 21 % of adult blacks in Britain with African origins have a university degree. Only 14 percent of adult white Britons are college educated. It has also been shown that black immigrants from Africa earn more money than do native born white Britons (C, Dustmann, N, Theodoropoulos, 2006):
Of the African-born population in the United States age 25 and older 86.4% reported having a high school degree or higher, compared with 78. 9% of Asian born immigrants and 76.5% of European born immigrants, respectively. These figures contrast with 61.8% percent of the total foreign-born population. Immigrants groups in general tend to have higher high school graduation rates than the native-born general American population.
Those Africans born from Zimbabwe (96.7 percent), Botswana (95.5 percent), and Malawi (95 percent) were the most likely to report having a high school degree or higher. Those born in Cape Verde (44.8 percent), Mauritania (60.8 percent), and Somalia (63.3 percent) were the least likely to report having completed a high school education (Dixon, D., 2006)..
Of the European born those born in Bulgaria (92.6 percent), Switzerland (90.5 percent), and Ireland (90.4 percent) were the most likely to report having a high school degree or higher. Those born in Portugal (42.9 percent), Italy (53.7 percent), and Greece (59.9 percent) were the least likely to report having completed a high school education (Dixon, D., 2006).
Of the Asian born Mongolia (94.8 percent), Kuwait (94.7 percent), the United Arab Emirates (94.5 percent), and Qatar (94.3 percent) were most likely to report having a high school degree or higher. Those born in Laos (48.1 percent), Cambodia (48.4 percent), and Yemen (49.9 percent) were the least likely to report having completed a high school education (Dixon, D., 2006).. (Most people think the Asian group includes Orientals exclusively, this is not true)
Dodoo (1997) finds that while African immigrants are indeed the most educated of black groups in the U.S., he finds a negative return on African immigrants’ education attainment for diplomas obtained outside the United States. However, the same does not hold true for Caribbean immigrants. Although he finds that among blacks – native and immigrants – Africans earn the most, when earning-related endowments such as educational attainments are included in the analysis, this expected African advantage disappears (Dodoo, 1997).
Distortion and Group Differences:
In the United States researchers often muddle group difference data by aggregating divergent geographical, historical, cultural and ethic groups into crude and arbitrary categories with whom they then compare with the general population. This in practice misleads unwary readers into the false belief that those aggregated group mean scores objectively characterize the individual groups who have contributed to the overall figures. Take for example: Only 5.3 percent of Central American immigrants have earned a bachelor’s degree, and only 19.5% percent have graduated from high school (Davy, M. 2006). This difference is often coupled with data relating to South American immigrants who, according to the Migration Policy Institute (Dixon, D., and Gelatt J., 2006) 23.4 percent had a bachelor’s degree or higher and 74.3 percent reported having a high school degree. These skewed grouping methods; the Hispanic category in this case, creates the false impression in the minds of readers that South American immigrants are poor students based on the fact that they speak Spanish or Portuguese, alone.
The African born and Employment:
The African born are concentrated in management or professional and sales or office-related occupations. Of the employed population age 16 and older in the civilian labor force, the African born were much more likely than the foreign born in general to work in management and professional occupations as well as sales and office occupations. Additionally, the African born were less likely to work in service, production, transportation, material moving, construction, and maintenance occupations than the foreign born in general.
Ethiopians, Sudanese and Somalis, who mostly immigrate as refugees, do not do as well as their counterparts from English speaking African countries such as Nigeria, Egypt and Kenya. The reason was because most people from the three countries immigrate to the United States as refugees and asylum seekers, following crises in their home countries (Otiso and Smith, 2005).
Source Materials:
African Immigrants in the United States are the Nation’s Most Highly Educated Group. The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, No. 26 (Winter, 1999-2000), pp. 60-61doi:10.2307/2999156
African-Born Blacks in the United Kingdom Are Far More Likely than Whites to Hold a College Degree. The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, No. 34 (Winter, 2001-2002), pp. 29-31 doi:10.2307/3134095
African-Born U.S. Residents are the Most Highly Educated Group in American Society The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, No. 13 (Autumn, 1996), pp. 33-34 doi:10.2307/2963153
Boyd, M. (2002). Educational Attainments of Immigrant Offspring: Success or Segmented Assimilation?
C, Dustmann, N, Theodoropoulos (2006): Ethnic Minority Immigrants and their Children in Britain. Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration, Department of Economics, University College London
Cross, T. (1994). Black Africans Now the Most Educated Group in British Society. The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, No. 3 (spring, 1994), pp.92-93
Davy, M. (2006). The Central American Foreign Born in the United States. Migration Policy Institute. April 2006
Dixon, D. (2006). Characteristics of the European Born in the United States. Migration Policy Institute. February, 2005
Dixon, D. (2006). Characteristics of the African Born in the United States. Migration Policy Institute. January, 2006
Dixon, D. (2006). Characteristics of the Asian Born in the United States. Migration Policy Institute. April 2006
Dodoo, F. N-A (1997). Assimilation differences among Africans in America. Social Forces 76: 527-46
Gelatt, J. and Dixon, D. (2006). Detailed Characteristics of the Caribbean Born in the United States. Migration Policy Institute. July 2006.
Gelatt, J. and Dixon, D. (2006). Detailed Characteristics of the South American Born in the United States. Migration Policy Institute. May 2006.
Guppy, Neil and Scott Davies (1998). Education in Canada: Recent Trends and Future Challenges. Ottawa: Statistics Canada and the Minister of Industry.
Kefa M. Otiso and Bruce W. Smith, (2005). “Immigration and Economic Restructuring in Ohio’s Cities, 1940-2000”, Ohio Journal of Science, 105 (5): 133-137 December 2005
Logan, J.R, Deane, G (2003). “Black Diversity in Metropolitan America.” Lewis Mumford Center for Comparative Urban Regional Research University Albany
Onwudiwe, E. (2006). “Reflections on African Brain Gain Movement.”
The Economist (1996). 339 (7965): 27-28
In Educational Attainment, Black Immigrants to the United States Outperform Native-Born White and Black Americans. The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education © 2003 CH II Publishers
Thank you, Dave.
Brad, you scared me for a minute.
I thought you meant Dr. Watson passed away.
Tony Maione, from your comment it wouldnt come to me as surprise if you are fact White individual.
Please answer me this, why does very comparative with respect to race whether being looks or in case intelligence alway comes down to black and white. never asian or white etc
And as know suprise, surprise the whites has always come top, so do you think that is racist pseudo-science about black intelligence come as a shock to African? no it doesnt. For centuries, blacks all over the world have been dealing with the whites dehumanising africans.
So does your comment come as a surprise to me, no it doesnt as it is what i except from people like you.
and also, is alway a matter of race.
if i were i say africans are stronger than White, with no scientific evidence to back it, what would be your response?
Please dont come here to make comment on issues you obviously know nothing about or have first hand experience about.
Nick, you are absolutely an idiot! Go back to your history, unbiased history that is. Go back to Noah’s three sons; historical scholars will be happy to share their very educated wisdom with you by showing you the historical contribution that Blacks have made in history. Where do you think the original letter of the alphabet comes from? Who are the Egyptians and what contribution have they made? Do you understand Hieroglyphics? Do you know who the Phoenicians are and what their contributions were? Etc. Let’s talk about African American contributors to America. Who finished building Washington, D.C? And I’m not talking about forced slave labor. You eat peanut butter? Who came up with that? Used soap lately? Washer agitator, the original hazard suit, that has brought about fire uniforms, space suit, hazmat uniform, who designed the new armed forces uniform? Stop at a traffic light lately? Nick, the list goes on and on. If you ever decide that you don’t want to be an ignorant, demonic idiot, please shut your biased mouth and do some research. Most white Americans destroy, downplay, steal, or demonize what they do not understand, and this they did to a people who they could not understand so you could feel superior! Are you superior? Not! That is why you have to kill us, maim us, imprison us, demoralize us, among other things, just so you can feel superior. Check out true history, and not the one White people have twisted and bend in their favor. Check out true history and, NOT the one they use to keep another group of people down. Their fear caused them to attack and attempt to destroy another group of people by stealing them, killing, them, and oppressing them, all in the name of feeling superior? Look at the history of Whites, they have plundered, destroy, and stolen everything they have ever “gotten” in history. America belongs to Indians and Mexican, but where are the Indians and Mexican? They are on reservations, or stuck behind an imaginary border. California, Texas, Oklahoma, Wisconsin, Utah, and other border states belonged to them. Why? “Because you feel you are superior. Idiot!
Two things-I would appreciate publicity and seat not sit with that dreaming giant and great scientist on a round table!
I shall appreciate first,greet him later on and address him in some languages that we was born not speaking-he will revise his remarks and definitely the book-whatever BIBLE it is-others he will add on himself and finally give me a Jambo!
http://www.africanunitymovement.com
Thanks Dave,
You have highlighted a substantial body of work on attainment by different group and it certainly does make interesting reading. I was aware of some, but not all of this material.
Attainment is not the same thing as intelligence. Over whole populations the studies referenced do appear to indicate higher than average levels of academic ability (perhaps coupled with application?) within certain groups.
There may be socialisation factors. Members of certain groups may believe that they need to outperform their competitors in the employment market – having to pedal harder to get to the same place is an issue that I have heard before.
Alternately there may simply be a disposition based on some other factor for this higher level of performance. I remain open-minded on the underlying causes of the differences.
Different people are equal. I believe the differences to be interesting and worthy of study.
Thanks Mustafa,
Although you have little to go on other than a name, you’ve correctly guessed that I am a white man. I’m an immigrant to the UK from Italy.
The body of knowledge Dave highlighted indicates that the population I come from enjoy far lower levels of academic attainment than most others. That does not cause me anguish at all. That work is only accurate on a population basis and is utterly meaningless on an individual level. It shows, just like Charles Murray’s book did, that the data means nothing on an individual level and that we should deal with the individual in front of us rather than the group we think they may belong to.
Mustafa – by referring immediately to my ethnicity, do you think you are dealing with me as an individual or as a member of a group that you have certain (possibly accurate) views on? I’m sure the answer is no and that you do not seek to treat anyone differently based on your perceptions of the ethnic group they may belong to. I certainly don’t – I’m a scientific determinist which informs my attitude to Dr Watson and that is why I remain uncertain on this point.
It remains the case that if somebody asked me whether I believed there to be a link between ethnicity and certain measures of intelligence I remain unable to give an answer either way. Any answer I would give would be based on scientific analysis of the existence of a link or not.
I accept that it is possible for scientists, like any other people, to be racists and vice versa. I don’t believe Dr Watson to be a racist for reasons that I’ll cover below.
It is probably fair to say that we lack a definitive study on this point. It is also possibly fair to say that if there were found to be a difference either way it would be minimal and possibly within the bounds of statistical error and only relevant over large populations. There are other factors that might cause differences between communities too and it would be difficult, if not impossible, to design a study that negated these factors. I would also wonder whether the benefit that could be gained from carrying out such a study would outweigh the resources needed.
Nevertheless that in itself, and my views on all persons being of equal value, regardless of their differences, does not immediately lead to the conclusion that Dr Watson is wrong.
My main interest in Dr Watson comes from his views on Tay Sachs disease which is a degenerative metabolic disease which is passed on by autosomal recessive inheritance. One of the interesting things about this disease is that the gene is 10 times more common in the Ashkenazi Jew population than in general population.
Whilst speaking in Germany some years ago Dr Watson suggested that all foetuses carrying the gene be aborted in order to remove or at least massively reduce the incidence of this terminal disease. The foetuses would not grow up, and pass the gene on to their own children being the logic. Of course such action would have any enormously disproportionate effect on the Ashkenazi Jew population. To air this views in Germany may well have been highly insensitive.
The first time I read these comments I was shocked – I have a daughter who suffers from a different metabolic disease albeit with a much better prognosis than Tay Sachs. Then I realised that if you strip emotion away from what Dr Watson said, in stark narrow terms he is right – the consequence he seeks would be achieved by the measures he suggests. That is the nature of scientists – see a problem, find a solution. Very often the solution will not have been considered in any wider context and may have all sorts of other unintended consequences rendering it an academic exercise only.
Dr Watson’s views linking ethnicity and intelligence may have been formed in an equally insular way. Alternately, he may be a racist. I don’t have enough information to make a conclusion.
What is certain is that he has made an enormous contribution to one of the greatest scientific advances of the 20th century. His work is underpinning the work of Craig Venter who is getting ever closer to creating life which gives us some more issues to debate.
Thanks again.
Tony Maione
Tony Maione
From you you comment is sounds to me that you have not done enough research on Dr Watsons interview. His comments were disrespectful to Black Africans all over the world, and some people like myself would in fact interprete it as racism.
i can see that you have kindly commented on my post, but there are thing in my original post that you have not comment on which i would very much to read your views on.
why does intelligence comparative studies alway compares Africans (blacks) and whites, but never black and Asian, or Asians and whites?
why is it that people with black skin l(ike that Australian aboriginals, africans etc) have lower IQ. i have an interpretation for this but i just cant be bother to explain at this time.
if the findings were the opposite your and fellow White men’s reaction be different?
if the findings showed that Whites are less intelligent than African would the findings be published, i think not.
When i was in the UK, a friend said that there is no way that a white man would allow his race to come second (especially with respect to intelligence) to Black African.
am sorry Tony if am coming a racist and disrespectful, but a comment like that of Dr Watson, only promote the idea that Africans inferiority to White, and that blacks are stupid, an idea that has been promoted for centuries and can be seen in all social institutions in the West, a reason for my leaving the West for african. There are things stated in your comment that reflex this views, like dismissing Daves comment with regard to African attainment ((Attainment is not the same thing as intelligence))
Blacks in the west are not treated as individuals, rather as a group, so is is hard for me to treat you as an individual especially from your initial comment.
Define “intelligence.” All the research is proving is that whites are better adapted to a eurocentric definition of intelligence. Develop an afrocentric IQ test and let’s see who does better. (et el aja)
well i hope you child feels better
I’m Susan B’s husband and a psychometrician. At her urging, I am responding to the remarks on Africans’ IQ. First, such a low average score must have been partly the result of a written test applied to illiterates, or a complicated non-verbal test for which the goals were not made clear. (If you were handed a test in Swahili and told to mark boxes on it, you would likely score in the retarded range as well.) But an IQ test, unless very limited and carefully designed, is also partly a test of literacy, test-taking experience, and cultural knowledge.
Aside from the language barrier, I would be willing to bet that a couple of weeks’ instruction in testing and Western conventions would have vastly improved the African subjects’ scores. If so, the test was only masquerading as an IQ test, if we believe that IQ is relatively fixed in each person.
Second, there is plenty of evidence that even intelligence conceived of as entirely culture-free can be improved with practice up to certain limits. I do not have the capability to be a professional rugby player no matter how much training I get, but practice would certainly make me better at the sport. On the other hand, the greatest natural athlete in the world will not be good at a sport without some training. In the modern Western world, most of us have had the opportunity to train our intellects up to our highest potential. Therefore, we tend to view IQ test results as a reflection of our upper limits of intelligence. A century ago here or today in Africa, this was/is not the case.
However, this does not imply that the best way to improve Africans’ intelligence is to train them up to be able to do well on Western IQ tests. I suspect that training in logic and practice at thinking would vastly improve the Africans’ “African Intelligence”, whether or not it is the same as our “Western Intelligence”, and that the African version would would serve them better at succeeding within their own cultures.
Finally, I will note in passing that cultures and religions vary more in Africa than they do in the homogenized West, so even referring to an “African IQ” is a gross oversimplification of the issue.
Susan B’s husband,
Thank you for your reading the blog and posting your comment. I agree with you entirely.
The people who are respectfully “considering” Dr. Watson’s words are also working from the racist premise that Black people—regardless of where they live or are from—are universally the same, i.e., less intelligent than White people. But let’s remember that the belief that Black people—first Africans and Australian Aborigines, then Black Americans, then Black West Indians—predates genetics and IQ testing. It has existed and thrived even in the absence of “science.” In fact, it has popped up and thrived wherever and whenever Europeans have had to interact with non-Europeans. In the context of colonialism, etc., the interactions between Europeans and non-Europeans have never been equal or fair, so is it any surprise that Western attitudes towards Black and African peoples are always so one-sidedly negative?
Susan B’s husband, thanks again for contributing to this discussion and for presenting your thoughts in an eloquent, articulate, and comprehensible manner.
Tony please read:
Far from the modern conservative utopia of a “colour-blind society,” Euro-centric racial chauvinism seems to rear its ugly head in the popular press every few years or so — from the eugenics of Arthur Jensen to Charles Murray and Richard Herrnstein’s Bell Curve to Dr. Watson, renowned for his role in describing the double-helix structure of DNA and for representing America on the international Human Genome Project.
Watson told the London Sunday Times he’s inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa” because all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours — whereas all the testing says not really. He expressed a hope for human equality but added that “people who have to deal with black employees find this not true. And here we go again.
But did you hear about the recent work of African-American economist Roland Fryer of Harvard University and University of Chicago economist Steve Leavitt, who co-authored the popular book Freakonomics?
Fryer and Leavitt responded to Watson’s scientifically-unfounded claims by pointing to Department of Education research that includes test data of the mental abilities of one-year-olds.While you might think it would be impossible to capture anything meaningful at such a young age,” Leavitt writes, “it turns out that these measures of one-year-olds’ intelligence are somewhat highly correlated with IQ scores at later ages, as well as with parental IQ scores. They found “no racial differences in mental functioning at age one, although a racial gap begins to emerge over the next few years of life .The observed patterns are broadly consistent with large racial differences in environmental factors that grow in importance as children age.
Much is made of the present Black IQ score of 85. White racists use it to show why they feel that Black societies, including ancient ones, have accomplished little. Not only is the Black IQ the same as it has always been, but it is irremediable, as IQ is, so the White racists say, 80% genetic.There are some serious problems with this analysis.
First of all, one must understand just what an IQ score really is. An IQ score is merely a relative score, and as scores rise, the tests are regularly re-normed at the 100 average here in the US. Therefore, the 20 point IQ rise has been completely masked.
Whites scored 100 and Blacks scored 85 in 1925. In 1995, after a 20 point rise in both groups, Whites scored 100 and Blacks scored 85 once again. Do you follow? The regular renorming 8of the tests reduced the gains to invisibility. Further, a score of 85 is not necessarily “low” and a score of 115 or even 130 is not necessarily “high”. With average set at 100, the scores work like this: 66% of the group will score between 85 and 115 – 15% of the group will score between 70 and 85 and another 15% will score between 115 and 130. 2% will score below 70 and another 2% will score above 130.
Suppose we ran into some aliens on another planet who had managed to design their own IQ tests. Suppose they were 10 times more intelligent on average than we are. Suppose they normed their tests exactly the way we do above.
The aliens who scored in the lowest 2% might still be, say, seven times smarter than the average human! If they gave their tests to us, we might receive an average score of 30, or below the lowest 1% of their society. On their test, that would be considered seriously retarded. Do you follow?
Now suppose we went to another planet and found another population. Suppose this group of aliens was not very intelligent yet. Suppose some of the brighter ones had set up their own IQ test with the score breakdown above and normed for their population.
We might find that the upper 2% of their population, scoring over 130 on the test, actually has an IQ equivalent to humans of 85. 85% of us would be considered “gifted” on their test. Understand?
The tests are relative. Set at 100, 15% of any population will score 70-85. Whether or not that is “slow” depends on the intelligence level of the population itself.
Second, Blacks of all ages, not just Black children, are reducing the Black-White IQ gap. Between 1972-2002, Black IQ at age 24 rose from 79 to 84.5, a gain of 5.5 points. A similar gain was seen amongst Black children. Even racists Arthur Jensen and Phillipe Rushton agree that the Black-White gap is not immutable. To continue to harp on this theme in face of contradictory evidence is either ignorance or White racism.
White racists are in agreement that the Black average IQ of 85 is “low”.
To this they ascribe all sorts of Black problems and pathologies.
White racists take it further and say that an average IQ of 70-85 (depending on the region) prevents Blacks from creating decent and civilized societies anywhere on Earth.
Are the studies of no value that show African-Americans or Asians doing differently than so-called “white” Americans on standardized IQ tests? That is, is the work of people like Herrnstein and Murray worthless? No. It is valuable data, but it is also explosive data because of our racist political history. Such data will inevitably be exploited by white supremacists, twisted for their own political goals and used not to improve racial relations in America but to encourage further racial strife. Such data consists mainly of correlations. And while correlations should convince orthodox empirical scientists of nothing, to the racist researcher, correlations are the heart and soul of their work. The furor that The Bell Curve caused died down quickly because there occurred an ongoing saga which usurped its political and entertainment value. In fact, Herrnstein and Murray, in chapter after chapter, call for social reforms to improve the status of blacks in America. They may be disingenuous calls, but they are nevertheless inconsistent with the notion that the social condition of blacks in America is due to genetic factors. If genes led to the black underclass of young thugs who murder each other on a daily basis in almost every city in America, then there would be no point in calling for educational or vocational programs, no point in urging a change of focus for black men and women in their families, as even the black supremacist Louis Farrakhan has recommended with his million man march.
One can’t deny that the majority of young men killing each other in gang wars are minorities. But one can deny that the reason they are so violent and immoral is because of their race. That is false and an insult to the majority of blacks and other minorities who are decent, law-abiding persons. One can’t deny that minorities are undereducated as a group and underrepresented in our colleges and universities, and in the professions and skilled trades. But one can deny that the reason minorities are underrepresented is because their race makes them genetically inferior and incapable of competing with “white” America. Even so, it is true that many minorities are not in college or working as doctors or lawyers or teachers or auto mechanics, etc., because of their race.
It is possible that some day we may be able to look at people of different races and see them as human beings without losing sight of what is special and unique about racial or ethnic membership. We do not need to be colourblind, nor should we strive to ignore racial differences. But they should be seen in a proper perspective: significant in forming us, but irrelevant to our status as human beings capable of both the highest moral and intellectual behaviour and of bestial depravity and moronic incompetence.
Thank God I never fully internalized the idea that most, if any, of my school mates were more intelligent than me. But, I did assume that everyone outside my family did. That’s why I never asked for help in school. I wrongly thought that asking for help amounted to an admission that black people were, in fact, inferior, as was periodically pronounced from the ivory towers of academia and other corners of the race conscious IQ industry. Fortunately, I was able to flip that negativity into motivation. But when I read about the remarks made recently by the esteemed biologist James Watson, I winced at the thought of how many black youngsters might continue to internalize the destructive but persistent message that they are inherently less intelligent. And I wonder if they too will turn that negativity into motivation.
You see Tony
Being a member of the race regarded as the race with high intelligence gives one a right to superiority and justifies inequality, regardless of one’s individual deficiencies. It also justifies racism, since if inferior people are succeeding they must be cheating the truly superior people out of their just inheritance. It also justifies believing things about oneself that have no objective validity.
for now, I have got to build up my younger cousins, nephew and nieces emotional intelligence quotient (EQ) to counter the likelihood that their IQ will be questioned someday simply because of the colour of their skin.
thanks Susan you are a great friend
Lauryn Hill is one of my favourite artist, in her last album she said that if you allow yourself to be subjected to other people opinion a part of you dies. i think black individuals should listen to this.
why do black people allow themself to be affected by racist comment that justice inequality and therefore racism?
just because someone is black does not mean that they dont have the feelings that makes us humans. they have feelings and someone them especially the younger generation can internalize racist comments like that of Dr watson and therefore causing further damages.
Why do we white continue to judge people by our standards.
and why we feel the need to constantly go on (centuries after centuries, generation after generation) about how black are less intelligence that us or other races. They have heard it so many times already do you think is time we stop doing this now.
the reason why white racist like Dr watson and others do this is because of the deep down insecurity that we have, the fear of africans discovering this insecurity and their own strength.
we just want to keep them down generetion after generation, century after century. why? to continue to promote the idea that they are less than us, which is pretty stupid if you think about it.
The fact people like Tony Maione and nick, are trying to justice this obvious racism is shocking and disapointing, shame on you two.
Tony i have lived in italy, italy is one of the places in the europe that promote black inferiority to white. just take a look at the senegal people (and other Africans and blacks) that live in italy and see how they are treated.
Take a look at the football company in europe. they have african/black player but never black managers, why?
we should be carefull what we say to people.
Good point Aja, interesting read.
i am interested to find out Tony’s views on Mustafa’s question.
nice one susan be husband.
abdul why do feel the need to explan and fight back. my African friend mother alway say silence is the best answer given to a fool like Dr watson and other racist bigots like NicK or people like Tony who is trying to excuse Dr Watson.
abdul just look at yourself, and other black people like Aja, and many others, also from the stat from Dave’s post, is an evidence that dr watson is an idiot, and not to be taken seriously.
please excuse my grammer error.
Natalie,
Thank you for your sensitive and insightful comments.
People like Dr. Watson and Nick need to be challenged. For them, silence is never the best answer. They will just think they are right if we remain silent. Notice Nick has not returned to repeat his ignorant remarks because our speaking out helped him understand what a racist fool he is.
As for the rest of you comment, Natalie, I cannot agree more. Thank you for contributing your voice and perspective to this conversation. It’s good to see that there are many, many White people who do not agree with racists like Dr. Watson, Nick and Tony Maione.
Abdul…
There is an article by a Nigerian Journalist called Idang Alibi, that you should read. i will like very much to read your take on this self hating African man.
i think the article is on http://www.allafrica.com. or simple google it adding Dr watson to the search.
Anyway i look forward to read your views on this article.
Aja
Many people will come and go, making statements such as this. As a black man, I know that our history and destiny has been manipulated by colonization, slavery and destruction of our culture and arts by superior fire power and at present, poor political leadership.
Imagining that the gloomy economic situation of Africa is a result of low intelligence would mean that North Koreans, for example, are of lower intelligence than South Koreans. The Saudis would be more intelligent than the Hungarians and Polish.
Africa has her challenges but she is coming round. This is inevitable.
To all you black/African Haters (Nick, Dr Watson and Tony)
If I could give you the world
On a silver platter
Would it even matter?
You’d still be mad at me
If I could find in all this
A dozen roses
Which I would give to you
You’d still be miserable
In reality, I’m gon’ be who I be
And I don’t feel no faults
For all the lies that you bought
You can try as you may
Break me down but I say
That it ain’t up to you
Gone and do what you do
(Chorus)
Hate on me, hater
Now or later
‘Cuz I’m gonna be me
You’ll be mad, baby
(Go ‘head and hate)
Go ‘head and hate on me, hate on
‘Cuz I’m not afraid of it
What I got I paid for
You can hate on me
Ooh, if I gave you peaches
Out of my own garden
And I made you a peach pie
you would still slap me high
What if I gave you diamonds
Out of my own womb
Would you feel the love in that,
Or ask “why not the moon”?
If I gave you sanity
For the whole of humanity,
Had all the solutions
For the pain and pollution
No matter where I live,
Despite the things I give,
You’ll always be this way
So go ahead and Hate on me, hater
Now or later
‘Cuz I’m gonna be me
You will alway be mad,
Go ahead and hate on me, hate on
‘Cuz I’m not afraid of it
What I got I paid for
You can hate on me
You cannot hate on me
‘Cuz my mind is free
Feel my destiny
So shall it be
(By Jill Scott)
Aja,
Thanks for the comment and the link. I’ll take a look at that article this week.
odiri,
Thanks for the comment, and for the inspirational lyrics.
To paraphrase the great Jedi Master, Yoda:
Nick, Dr. Watson, and all the other haters out there need to get to the root of their fear of African and Black people. That’ll be an important first step towards making this world a better place.
No westerner living in Africa (as I have for nearly forty years) would ever challenge Watson. The relatively low average intelligence of Africans is a central fact that permeates life there, and goes a long way to explaining the unremitting disaster that is Africa. As in any population, there is high variance but it is notably rare to meet someone who is clearly bright, and depressingly commonplace to deal with people who have trouble with complex ideas. I must emphasize: there are plenty of exceptions, but the average person is noticeably less intelligent than the average European or Asian.
Of course, the is no way to determine whether this pattern is due to bad nutrition, bad education, a culture which discourages innovation and creativity, or whether it might be partially influenced by heritable factors. But it is an inescapable fact of life that has dramatic implications for the continent in a world which is changing rapidly and getting ever more complex.
— Posted by Larry
Larry,
As an African who has been living in the West for almost two decades, I am constantly amazed at how many ignorant, unintelligent, inarticulate, and barely literate Europeans I encounter on a daily basis.
And, as an African who also lived in Africa, I have always been struck by the fact that many Westerners who live in Africa seem unable to shake their racism and prejudice. I wonder if that’s a hereditary factor that persists despite good nutrition, education, socioeconomics, etc.
But more importantly, geneticists and other scientists have denounced Watson for his views. He himself has stated there is no scientific backing for his claim.
So, whatever is causing the lack of intelligence you perceive among Africans, at least we can rule out a genetic, race-based explanation.
To me, it looks like it’s exactly these kinds of justification that ‘Black’ people who don’t want to work hard (for example) can use and get away with. By categorizing ‘Black’ people as ‘Dumb’ (lets face it, that’s what people like Larry are really trying to say) they take away whatever willingness that these people might have had to educate themselves, read more, go to college and so on. When we have big names like Watson saying ‘Sorry, you’re doomed because you’re Black’, the average ‘Black’ kid would grow up thinking himself to be inferior and assuming that he would never be good at certain things, so why bother? And then we have people like Larry, who spend 40 years in Africa, and think poorly of the people who inhabiate the place. Perhaps, you ARE right Larry. They are dumb, dumb enough to let you stay in a continent where you had no respect for the average people.
to me,
Hear hear!!!
It is to our own detriment that we have let others so thoroughly occupy our land and our minds that they can now define who we are in whatever negative light they see fit.
to add to ‘to me’’s point, when members of a particular group are told over and over that they are inferior in some way, while beginning to believe and internalize this, they also become angry and resentful, further diminishing their chances at constructive progress, development, and peaceful coexistence with those imposing these views, be it in africa, the us, or anywhere else in the world.
I am reading all this trash. Simpleton whites now think they have the intellect to cast judgement on Black folks. We have been here before. Western scientific communities once held, whites were physically superior to Blacks. This point of view is now a joke. If we accept IQ test as the measurement of biological superiority, then Asians especially East Asians are the superior race. Asian IQs are higher than whites. Affirmative Action programs were never a programs for African Americans. The wording was “women and minorities.” In fact, white women have been the biggest benefactor of Affirmative Action. Also it seems that Affirmative Action in higher education in the California university system was benefiting whites more than any other group. It was whites hurting Asian applicants more than Blacks. I am less intelligent than a white because I don’t know what a caboose is(what if my country don’t have trains?). It is cowardly and pathetic of Western society to compare themselves to people who are poorer and still developing the material/social structure for bringing about modernity, especially towards people they have had a hand in stunting development. This IQ debate is an attempt for whites to remain relevant. We have seen the ascendancy of Asians. The white race is no longer the superior race both physically and intellectually.
bobby
Less than 2 generations from nazism it amazes me how any one comes to even speculate on racial differences.I feel very fortunate to be around some very intelligent people from all races.After working in in R@D at the protein purification plant at Genentech I am now in pharamceutical sales and travel very extensively.
Any one can clearly see this was a very,meticulous,well thoughtout plan to smear a whole race of people.Watson at 80 was put out to pasture and it behooves me to realize that these suspensions/retirement and whatever else ramifications he encountered was planned well in advance(quip about “black employees” is ridiculous).
I am white,very athletic and have no doubt in my mind or any one elses that blacks are superior in 2 of the 3 allys (mentally,physically, and sexually).
Watson admitted sexual superiority for melanin gifted races.So these bigots really need to zero in on the mental debate.
I listened to a debate on talk radio and a black guest mention something I never thought of….if whites could not find any genetic difference they would invent one.He said,contrary to Watson,that whites people are already operating on basis that whites are superior.
He went on to ask the talk show host do you know of any widely reported studies are speculation about white people (as a race) that negative in nature, the host admitted he really couldnt say.But this constant, corrosive, drip drip reports about blacks keep coming with courteousy of the the media every 3 months are so.
Watson’s stars really lined up for him.His book about to be published,a shot at Obama for prez (plantings seeds of doubts for his potential voters) and his retirement.
My girlfriend says I am pretty black – not as black as coal, but blacker than caramel and perhaps shades lighter than oreo cookies. However I am a South Asian. I was wondering does that make me dumb?
Your skin color doesn’t make you dumb Rezwan, but that question surely does
Rezwan,
I’ve never heard of anyone who isn’t actually Black claiming to be, but if you wanna be Black, it’s fine with me. Lord knows there aren’t enough of us graduating from Ivy League schools.
But I think when Dr. Watson said what he said, he was referring to Africans and Black Americans, not specifically brown- or black-skinned people, and certainly not South Asians.
I’m sorry. You must be very disappointed.
Haha! Yes Certainly I am
To poster 55, I was kidding! 
i did a report on you! you were really interesting to write about. thanks for finding out dna!!
=-]]]]
Dr Watson should be removed from his Nobel Prize. I am back African & proud, qualified CIMA from Edinburgh, HCIMA and MBA from London. Does that make also dump because Watson say so?. If Alfred Nobel knew what this wicked old man have been saying he would have taken his prize from him instantly.
Those black people reading this rubbish from Dr Watson, you must write the Bobel Prize Org urgently like I did & you must demand an apology from her not from this crazy racist doctor. Someone said the American black know only how to shoot each other, that nay be true but who have denied them to obtain education? who made them feel half of their own who not long ago refused to take a seat in a bus or even dine in the same restaurant with a white person. The fact is clear to those who really need to know. Watch a film called TRADING PLACES.
There is a way how we do not need to argue actually~See it is great to research even you know that some hopeless fellows have tried to research but failed, but anyway there is no need of so much discussing! You need to QUIT talking and acting social economic fake life but be happy and live well!
Lame,blind, limbless and stupid people may only win awards these days! Find a way how not to be mad but simply stupid like!You will know what speaking about can be!
BUT,Here is a non RACIAL solution to help both the great unthinking and the thinking giants who understand the WORLD better or not better!
http://www.gopetition.co.uk/online/10151.html
I WISH HE HAD WRITTEN ABOUT THIS~I WAS NOT BORN ONE BUT THOSE PEOPLE KNOW WHAT FILLS THEIR MINDS~I cried profusely when I was taught that people sold people~no body understood why I cried~thats why most don’t understand~they better do! I will never forget that blackout day in my life even though I was simply young! SIGN IT~THANK YOU!
He seems to be ignorant of human beginnings with
writing, medicine, mathematics, et al. Maybe he never heard about the Antediluvians, the Egyptians, the Phoenicians, the Sumerians, the Babylonians, the Hebrews, the Kingdom of the South, Great Zimbabwe, Songhai, Mali, Timbuktu, Djenne, the Dogon…not to mention our accomplishments during our sojourn here in the west…inventions vital to things such as blood transfusions for one…
As usual I have to say Happy New year to You all not forgetting Doctor Watson~All along I have been thinking of a make believe~of a PHD? Is it like a Permanent Head Damage? May be Desmond Tutu,said it~*What is black empowerment( I will say modern empowerment) when it seems to benefit not the vast majority but an elite that tends to be recycled* This a smart cleric also talked about a full menu of rights? He wants it!
You tell more~share articles get out of the way for the information to flow is not a bad or rough word~simply get out of the way~and more so,I’m not rough men! Many times,I carry the blame?
According to OUR own or THEIR own?,John E. Pfeiffer:-
Africa is not only the original home of humanity, it is the cradle of its intellect. It was on Africa’s savannahs, riverbanks, highlands, deserts, and forests that the first men and women used the power of their minds to shape their environment in ways that suited them. Here man established himself as a tool maker and hunter and advanced social animal. Over the course of millions of years, groups of prehistoric Africans of the genus Homo reasoned, judged, understood, and created the basis for much of the technology and industry that exists in the world today.
See we mostly choose not to speak or even simply write or even make mistakes~even mistakes are great! We have exported absolutely raw material and earned pretty much nothing in return~And for a reason,the likes of you have sincerely written~and continue to write:-
‘So that a united Africa ,the poverty stricken continent, good for nothing as some will call it, the mockery of the past decades, shall in unity, love, peace, courage and determination, rise above all things socially,politically and economically to become the heaven on earth that every man will wish to be a part of.
So help us GOD~OUR MAIN LIGHT
Cornelius Adjetey, A Brother from another MOTHER!
Let me wish you a holly jolly new year in French:-
Les libertaires bonne année!
Zestfufully, or contraire,I wont be tied to the French Franc and system like my umbilical cord to be extra conversant of Paris streets than Mombasa or Kinshasa the world’s largest French speaking city that never even makes it to the records.
At AUM we sincerely wish you well in your endeavors!
Look and do think about US! The Youths have been ignored as they perish watching useless stuff not forgetting porn in our cosmopolitanised social world. We have some belief in such forums with care!
http://www.africanunitymovement.com
http://village.africanpath.com
http://www.africa-union.org
@ Odiri, Comment 44.
You’ve said it all, you’ve said it right.
Thank you.
What a tedious discussion, especially from (the former African) James Watson. With his “advanced” (????) knowledge of DNA (and presumably the supporting palaeontological evidence), he should be well aware by now that everything is African, including himself, even if he and his more immediate ancestors developed an interesting and colourful variant from the original norm of skin colour and texture. Remember dear professor, and anyone else that may entertain your ideas, that every knowledge and every invention today began in Africa, after a long “walkabout” that led to everyone alive today, to the construction of the pyramids on both sides of the Atlantic and Indian oceans, to the “Black Buddhas” with thick lips and kinky hair recorded forever in stone throughout the far east, the great Greek philosophers who had more wisdom than our good professor today and did not entertain his racist ideas, through the ugliness of Hitler and the bombs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and to the everlasting beauty of all the world’s art that began in the Blombos caves of South Africa some 70,000 years ago. Without that first step out of Africa, the world of knowledge we now enjoy would not be. If Dr. Watson was a Christian, I guess he would be praying for forgiveness from the “Black Jesus” for insulting His people.
I wish all readers of this column a wondrously informed and knowledgeable 2008.
Bash, Tukam Dixon, Diame, afrikan0, OreFad, and Walter,
Thank you all for your comments.
It saddens me how determined and—dare I say desparate—some people are in their attempts to argue that Black and African people are less intelligent, despite all the evidence to the contrary, or more accurately, the lack of scientific evidence to prove this alleged lack of intelligence. I’ll repeat what I wrote elsewhere in response to the likes of Dr. Watson:
Genetics?, I investigated about this theory, and found out that it’s totally INCORRECT.
Why?
Well, first I wonder no explain and proves about the theory, only the “results”.
Maybe Watson knows about genetics and other things, but psychologist had proved that there aren’t races with more IQ than other.
Also I’d read that Watson made big mistakes, forgetting the social-economic situations of the tested persons.
Also on 1978, the General Conference of the United Nations for the Education, Sience and Culture (UNESCO) said something like “All theory that involves a supremacy or inferiority of racials or etnics groups, that gives the right to control or eliminate another, or that make ‘values’ (like moral or something like that) justice based on a racial difference, it don’t have cientific fundament and it’s opposite to morals and etics believes of humanity”
If there are differences on the IQ poblations it’s more logic that depends on the enviroment than the genetic
Read something here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luigi_Luca_Cavalli-Sforza
“The classification into races has proved to be a futile exercise for reasons that were already clear to Darwin.”
Diego,
Thanks for reading my blog and for leaving a comment.
Dr. Watson belongs to a different generation that embraces outdated and prejudiced “theories” about race.
if you are saying that all black people are less intelligent than white people, then that’s a sterotype. Each black person has their own mind and thoughts. I have met some blacks who are smarter than some whites. This is just another racial comment to prove that white people think they are suprerior than black people. No little DNA test or what ever can prove that. Your skin color doesn’t prove who is smarter than who. Your mind has nothing to do with skin color. So stop degrating blacks as useless, non-intelligent people. We are the ones who changed history it self. If you considered us less intelligent than white people. Then what are all of those inventions that we created too. Basically this test proves NOTHING and you are just racist man.
I m not surprised by Dr Wtson ,coz he knows himself that they are some Black intelligents than him but he want to ignore that.
To say that more than 800 millions Blacks living on this earth are less intelligent than Whites (including Dr Wtson himself) that is exageration
Maybe he was joking ,but if not this man is dangerous for the good of world society .
Hello and thank you all for writing such wonderfully diverse and challenging statements.
If at all possible, I would like for someone to respond to “Alex”. There seemed to be a lack of interest in responding to his simple yet highly effective (and slightly exaggerated) arguement.
I look forward to your comments. Thank you.
Dr. Watson,
Alex’s comment was stupid beyond belief and does not merit serious treatment on this blog.
Alex ignores history, politics, sociology, and economics, focusing instead on skin color. That’s racism in its essence and I will not dignify his remark with a response.
Enough has been said on that issue. The Sudanese have nothing in common with Black Americans besides a history of oppression and marginalization. The violence in both places has nothing to do with either people’s skin color. Nor does the poverty. There are factors beyond skin color that determine how people live.
If it gives you comfort to believe that there is violence in Sudanese and Black American communities because both people are dark-skinned, go ahead.
Intelligent people know better.
Well, this is interesting.
Let me start 1st by saying, i’m “white”.
I have alot of friends of different “races”.
In my expirience ive come to believe that intelligence does not come from race or culture or anything like that. It come from using your brain. Giving your brain exercise. Keeping away from substances that kill brain cells. And keeping yourself healthy enough, mentally and physically so that your brain can focus more on solving the problems of life.
The main problem that Africans, African-Americans, as well as Latino-Americans have, is that more often than Caucasians they lead a stressful life. If you lead a stressful life, your brain is more focused on just basic survival in your society. Your brain will focus on menial tasks be it working at a low paying job, selling drugs, stealing, or whatever it takes to pay those bills. And why do minorities resort to these negative ways of life? Some think its the only way. Some are forced into it by circumstance. Some are raised that way. Some have their parents taken away by violence. There are an infinite number of reasons why. And what do the lower-class minorities say? Blame the White man. Sure the White man started lots of trouble in the past. And there is still tension today. But he is not to blame for what is going on today. Its not easy to come back from what has happened in the past. But for White, Black, Asian, and Latin
the challange is the same: Make your way in life, and make the most of it, and out of yourself. Get an education, get a degree, and get a well-paying career. Don’t sit at home and collect a welfare check, or run the streets. It only leads to death or prison. I know the Black, Latino populations in America can do better for themselves, they just have to believe it.
The national black IQ of America is 85, and 85 is low. When blacks have some high school education up to the level of the 10th or 12th grade their general IQ is 85. It is a fact, that not all blacks have IQs of 85 some have lower IQs from 84 on down to the 70s. Blacks who go to the universities (college) and graduate their IQs go up to 100. Now not all black college graduates have IQs of 100 some have IQs in the 90s, and IQs in the 90s are mediocre. Some black high school students have IQs past 100 and some black college graduates have IQs past 100 after they graduate. These IQs could be 103, 107, 111, 115, 121, 130, 135, and above. But when you hire blacks and give them affirmative action and their IQs are not a minimum of 100 this often leads to trouble and incompetence.
The major problem with blacks is really not their low or high IQs it is the lower moral standards that they live by. They bring their lower moral standards to the work place – and this creates most of the problems that plague Black America in the work place. Whether it be government federal, State, or city jobs blacks bring too much suffering to these jobs, and the people who suffer the most at the hands of these affirmative action black employees are blacks themselves. Blacks are often treated better by employees from other racial groups. Blacks seem to have some kind of characteristic in them that they inherited from their African forefathers — that makes them mistreat fellow blacks.
It was this same characteristic that helped put blacks in slavery — during the times of the slave trade black African Kings would sell blacks from conquered tribes to white Europeans. The reality is that affirmative action has out lived it usefulness, it did a great job at trying to remedy some of the past racial injustices in America. Black pathologies and the Lack of a moral sense that too many blacks show at affirmative action jobs has created a lot of suffering in black America.
If it was not for affirmative action many employers, government, federal, and city jobs would not hire a lot of blacks. So the unemployment rate for blacks would be higher. Other non-white employees from other non-white racial groups have negative trouble makers in their racial groups who create problems at work also, but blacks by far have the most
By the way am mix race.
My studies in genetic science is a way for me to learn what makes us as humans tick. There are many things that make us humans tick genetics is just one of the many tickers that’s all. Also, I recommend many blacks start studying the subject too it will help them understand themselves better. What I said about blacks and IQs is well verified this is not something new it’s common knowledge.
my knowledge about the IQs of blacks now how does this make me a person who believes blacks are inferior? All racial groups in America have general collective IQs not just blacks.
Many blacks criticize but have never studied the subjects that they criticize others for speaking about. I am a visionary and I predict that my studies in genetics will become acceptable in the future by America and the world in general. The subject of genetics will be accepted in America publicly someday guaranteed. Anyone who has studied IQs knows that my information is accurate.
Lower moral standards by fellow blacks continue to create more suffering among blacks than white racism. Whites will pay someday for their trouble making but blacks will also pay for this unprovoked black on black negativity.
WELL I MUST SAY HOW YOU ENGLISH PEOPLE OF THE WHITE RACE THINK YOU RULE EVERYTHING
YOU DONT KNOW WHAT IS BEHIND THE SKIN OF A BLACK PERSON
DO YOU ACTUALLY THINK THAT WE ARE DUM??????????
THINK AGAIN
WE HAVE INVENTED THINGS AND GONE DOWN IN HISTORY SO EXCUSE YOURSELVES
LEARN ABOUT OUR HISTORY AND THEN YOU WILL SEE IF WE ARE STUPID
CALL US NAMES BUT WE ARE THE BIGGER PEOPLE. WE IGNORE STUPID REMARKS AND MOVE ON WITH OUR LIVES BY LOOKING AT THE BIGGER PICTURE IN LIFE
UNLIKE YOU WHO WOULD RATHER POINT THE FINGER.
ID JUST LIKE TO SAY
GET
A
LIFE
=]
Black poeple may not be stupid
Blackgirl- after reading your comment… You Are Stupid
BLACK GIRL YOU CHAT SO MUCH SENSE !
WHO IS HE TO SAY DAT BLACK PEOPLE ARE LESS INTEELIGENT?! WE ARE ALL THE SAME JUST DIFFERENT SKIN COLOURS. IM BLACK AND WOULDN’T WANNA BE ANY OTHER COLOUR. OH YEAH AND ANOTHER THING. THE MOST SMARTEST PEOPLE IN MY SCHOOL [THAT HAS OVER 3000 PUPILS] ARE BLACK!!! IT WAS IN THE SURVEY IN THE LOCAL NEWSPAPER SO BEAT THAT YOU RACIST.. GRRRR. OH MY DAYS YOU GET ME SOO MAD. AND YEAH GO TO ONE SCHOOL ANY WHERE YOU WANT AND SEE IF THE SUPPORT CLASSROOMS AINT FULL OFF.. YEAH THATS RIGHT YOU GOT IT ! WHITE PEOPLE! SO YOU CAN SHUT UP WITH ALL YOUR FOOLISHNESS. LIKE BLACK GIRL SAID ALL THE BLACK PEOPLE GO DOWN IN HISTORY BLUD SO DONT TRY IT. LIKE THE PYTHAGORAS THEROY.. HMM THAT STUPID MAN DIDNT EVEN COME UP WITH IT. A BLACK MAN DID!! BUT BECAUSE BACK THEN THEY WAS DOING RACISM HEAVY THE BLACK MAN NEVER GOT NOTICED OR EVEN HIS NAME WRITTEN DOWN AND SO PYTHAGORAS GOT ALL DA FAME. WHITE PEOPLE ARE UNORIGINAL AND THINK THE WORLD OF THEMSELVES. WHEN EVEN THEN BLACK PEOPLE ARE SOOO MUCH BETTER LOOKING! EVEN THE WHITE PEOPLE SAY IT! BLACK BABIES ARE CUTER THAN WHITE AND WILL GROW UP TO BE MORE INTELLIGENT SO DO YOU AND YOUR CRAPP!!!
Black gyal and Black girl are chatting so much sense.
Its true. Who is he saying that black people are less intelligent? Well if that was the case then chinese people are the worlds greatest seeing as they first invented guns, bombs and explosives which whites then went over to AFRICA to exchange for slaves. Its pathetic how just because he’s a famous doctor he can go and write stupid articles with NO PROOF.
GO AND STUDY YOUR BLACK HISTORY BEFORE YOU COME UP WITH STUPID COMMENTS LIKE THAT!
That is outragous what kind of crap says that black people are less smart than white people? What kind of science proves that? I mean who would let a person say that? That is so retarded it makes me angry. James Watson is stupid to even say such a thing.I mean, look at Christophor Columbus who killed so many native americans in America and then had the nerve to say he found America. Look at George Bush he’s the stupidest nut in America. He was starting wars in Iraq just for his personal gain.
well it appears to me by your ignorant “theory” that its the white folks that are of less intelligents. go and sit your old dirty looking self down some where and stop putting out false information. At lease us African Americans are smart enough to know when to shut up about something that could get us in trouble.
Look Chance,
nice. You’re comments are very Bill Cosby (Blacks should pull themselves up by the bootstraps…please.). There are issues with your figures.
First and foremost, affirmitive action is there for a reason?
Do you think it’s as easy for me to get a job as a white person? I could do all the studying I want in the world, get a masters degree and it STILL wouldn’t make my skin light enough for a position without suspicion of me being a
thief
drug dealer
or a prostiute with eight kids.
Because there’s no way for me to make you believe that I am w o r t h y enough to go to College, worthier than Samantha Smith who will stroll right up and take my spot no matter the credentials.
If you want further proof there are studies.
It’s called white privilege. For some reason its so invisible to people who beifit from it.
Wake up.
“… In old Greece, as Aristotle says, that occurred by fact the towns that lived more to the south, like the Egyptian, were naturally more wise people and ingenious than the Barbarians which they lived in the regions you cold. Sometimes the Germanic blonde-haired people were considered Barbarian, slow and incapable of civilization. And they were treated like such by the most advanced empires of skin darkened by suns of the South which demonstrates that the stupidity is not property of any race.” Jorge Majfud.
Wow, well where I live there’s some really dumb white people, but there’s also dumb black people, there’s also dumb Asians, dumb Mexicans, I can go on and on.
In general.
I don’t mean to offend anyone.
Blacks score lower on tests IN GENERAL. From what I observe.
Majority they don’t grow up the same way as white people, plus they’re surrounded by peers (that I mean black people) and the standard is lowered, so they don’t feel as pressured as much.
White are like the top since like, er… they industrialized, and they still are so they have high standards.
Asians have a different standard probably from various sources… they were never enslaved either… I forgot what I learned in history…
Blacks were like from freed from slavery not so long ago.. takes a while to bounce back from slave status which is kind of was the lowest class… (I’m not trying to be mean T__T)
Latinooo people were like, in dependance, so pretty low.. class.
(what I’m trying to say is, why I think black people “intelligence” is lower is cause of slavery) p: and it takes a while to bounce back, simple as that. *GENERALLY*
However.. since everyone is treating everyone “equally”, the world is kind of getting more stable isn’t it
D until like someone decides to lauch bombs or something ;-;
First, what is “white people”?
if he is speaking of the Anglo Saxons, he should remember that around 1500 years ago they were living the same way that some African tribes live today.
IF THE LATINS HAD NOT CIVILIZED THEM, THEY COULD BE ANYTHING!!!!
KIRAAA O_O,
Thanks for reading my blog and leaving a comment.
While I think your sensitivity to the historical persecution of Black Americans is commendable, I have to take issue with your acceptance of Black people’s purported lower intelligence.
To date, there is no scientific evidence that intelligence has a genetic basis and so there is no proof that entire populations can be more or less intelligent than entire other populations. Certainly the result of “intelligence tests” can be skewed by social and historical realities—as you rightly point out in your comment—but even these tests are seriously flawed in terms of cultural bias, etc.
My problem with Dr. Watson’s comments is that he basically implied that Africans are less intelligent, which is why social and economic policies aimed at alleviating poverty in Africa are doomed to failure. There are plenty of other reasons why these policies have been failing; e.g., political instability and corruption on the African side and neoliberal economic prescriptions that aim to continue colonial relations on the part of the West. But Watson ignores all other factors in favor of a race-based cause. That’s simply racist.
Secondly, he goes on to say that anyone who’s ever had to deal with Black employees knows that they’re less intelligent, basically conflating Africans with Black Americans—I can only assume Watson has no experience with African employees. But again, he’s wrong because Africans are not genetically identical to Black Americans so even if both groups were really less intelligent, there would have to be some other explanation for this besides skin color, i.e., race.
YOU SICK RACIST MOTHERFUCKERS FUCK YOOOUUU ALL!!.. who THE FUCK YOU THINK YOU ARE. YOU THINK YOU ARE BETTER THAN US COME TO PUERTO RICO AND SAY THAT ILL WHOOP YO’ ASS
He is right, so right believe it or not there is living proof, disbelief is this man is inncorrect, he has only showed us the truth.
If you just his discoveries, you probably are making comments of violence like Jow3LL. which further proves your intelligence is lower.
Africa – Mud huts and AIDS
Western World and Europe – LIVING PROOF THAT HE IS RIGHT.
B-dog,
That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard! Dr. Watson’s words were not based on any scientific research. What he said was nothing more than the opinion of an old White racist. His being a famous geneticist does not mean his words were based on any science, and he himself has admitted as much.
As for mud huts and AIDS, you obviously know very little about Africa. Yes, it’s the poorest continent but what does that have to do with genetics and intelligence? It’s a matter of economics and politics. Not long ago, Asia was full of mud huts. Today there are booming economies all over the region. Does that mean that Asians became more intelligent over the last 20 years? Oh wait! Everyone knows Asians are the smartest people, right? So how do you explain all the mud huts in Asia prior to the last few decades? You’re using circular reasoning, which makes me wonder about your intelligence.
And for the record, there’s plenty of AIDS in Asia too, as there is in Russia and other parts of Europe. What does AIDS have to do with intelligence?
this is an intelligent young black female who has a g.p.a average of 4.0. in advanced math and science. now tell me that im not smart. not all black folks are stupid and not all white folks are stupid. but both of the races have their under acheivers. u are bein racist. dat aint right. stupidity AINT genetic. i might talk different, look diferent, act different, but we all got the same brain.
Like my homies said WE BLACK AMERICANS ARE CIVILIZED AND INTELLIGENT! It’s some peoples choice to be stupid. White people shouldn’t steriotype us! HALLELOOYER!
Thats a shame. You are so racist. Some blacks are stupid and some whites are stupid. Thats their decison to be like my friend said. A LOT OF BLACKS ARE VERY INTELLIGENT AND CLASSY. idk how you could say that you racist dog.
1. Air conditioning was made by a black person
2.Cell Phones were made by a black person.
3.Trafic lights were made by a black person.
4.the first successful open heart surgey was done by a black person.
5.Gas Mask was invented by a black person.
6.Almanac was made by a black person.
7.pencil sharpener was made by a black person.
8.stove was made by a black person.
9.a type writer was made by a black person
10.the tricycle was made by a black person.
i could list alot more things.
And you white people say black people are stupid. Let God have mercy on your soul.
Dear commenters,
If you are responding to a comment left by another reader, please indicate which reader you are responding to. Otherwise, it looks like your comments are addressed to me, which is totally fine. However, if that’s the case, I urge you to reread the above post because I am in now way defending Dr. Watson or agreeing with him.
Watson is on to something! i am african, lived here my whole life but have been fortunate to travel all over the world. Open your eyes. He is opening a debate not about individual intelligence but about collective intelligence. This is the kind of intelligence that advances society. Africa is plagued by intolerance, violence, poverty, bad services and corruption. This is also in countries where education is high – like Zimbabwe. These are countries that have had independence for a while. For those who have not seen it, it will be hard to understand.I think Watson has seen Africa for what it is. South Africa is Africa’s most advanced country. Refugees and job seekers from all over Africa come to South Africa to find something they cant get from their native country. South Africa has more white people than any other african country. Even with the abundant amount of natural resources that nature provides most African countries, people are starving while their politicians are making huge fortunes. Africa is different – no doubt about it. Don’t mistake racism for observation.
Simon,
Thanks for reading my blog and leaving a comment. I have to, however, respectfully disagree with your point. You are comparing apples and oranges and trying to conflate two issues that are separate.
Africa’s impoverishment has more to do with politics and economics than it has to do with individual or collective intelligence. I repeat again that only 20 years ago, many Asian and Latin American/Caribbean countries were as impoverished as Africa and, despite significant economic growth in places like India and China, huge pockets of the population continue to live in poverty.
Individual or collective intelligence is not uniform across populations, and I have yet to see any convincing scientific proof to the contrary. Individuals capability of living up to their full potential is significantly limited by the political, social, and economic factors that impact their lives. Factors like health care, housing, education, transporation infrastructure, access to productive economic activity, and physical/personal security. It wasn’t so long ago that the same arguments about intelligence was made about London’s Eastenders and other poor and working-class populations in Europe.
I can go on and on but for me, it’s a question of belief. There’s more than enough evidence to support what I’m saying but if you insist on looking at things from one vantage point only—that skin color affects intelligence—no amount of information will change your mind.
Thanks again for engaging in this debate.
Thanks for your reply.
It is an interesting debate. I read an interesting essay a few weeks ago on this subject.I’ll try find it and post it.
Anyway, I think that the politics and economics of Africa is governed by the ‘intelligence’ ‘reasoning’, or whatever you want to call it, of the people. I don’t think the violence and self destruction of Africa is not comparable to Asia or South America.
Having said that, Africans by nature are friendly amazing people.
Such is the contradiction of this continent.
small correction
Thanks for your reply.
It is an interesting debate. I read an interesting essay a few weeks ago on this subject.I’ll try find it and post it.
Anyway, I think that the politics and economics of Africa is governed by the ‘intelligence’ ‘reasoning’, or whatever you want to call it, of the people. I don’t think the violence and self destruction of Africa is comparable to Asia or South America.
Having said that, Africans by nature are friendly amazing people.
Such is the contradiction of this continent.
when you suffer you have to stop that suffering using any means necessary .
Black people and all other races in this world we share suffering ;those people who think they are clavers , they don’t have enough time for sleeping ,for one reason they want to survive , but the nature doesn’t give them that chance .
When we see people like that man in Austria who incested his doughter for more than 20 in savage manner and you come in South Africa nowadays killing of black foreigner is going on ..
I think it will be better to know that nobody is superior to another. On this world the best gift we have is nature ,
let care about it coz is only thing can help us to survive in peace without these distractions stories……….
was it necessary for james to say that? he’s cursing conflicts coz by now we kill the whites.
I’ve been fascinated with this thread of posts, some displaying obvious intelligence, and some…well, not.
Do I believe that people with dark skin have less intelligence, generally, than people with light skin?
No.
Do I believe that people in less developed parts of the world have less MEASURABLE intelligence than people in more developed parts of the world?
Sure.
Do I think it has to do with genetics?
Uh.
What about all the comments about how it’s generally accepted that black people run faster and jump higher than white people? Should I be offended at that? I even heard someone say that white people are more likely to inbreed than people of any other race. How should I react to that?
I read the article that Aja mentioned, http://allafrica.com/stories/200710250639.html. Mr Alibi makes some interesting points and obviously has quite a bit of frusteration about the affairs of his country. I can relate. His argument that Black Africans may be unintelligent because they allow criminals to run their countries sounds hauntingly similar to a point I’ve been trying to make ever since George W. Bush first came into office. I don’t agree with Aja’s comment that Mr. Alibi is a self-hating black man. I think he’s fed up with the way things are going in his homeland and he wants to spur people into making changes.
Maybe I can be that person here in the States.
first of fucking all im not stupid you dumb ass bastard gey ya fuckin cocky ass old head out ya ass and say something meaningful for once bitch is that intelligent enough for you old head!!!!!
GET AT ME~~
In response to Aalishna Edwards:
Unfortunately, the following were not invented by black people. I am unsure about the stove, however. Black historians have seized upon such inventions without investigating the details.
1. Air conditioning: Dr. Willis Carrier built the first machine to control both the temperature and humidity of indoor air. He received the first of many patents in 1906 (US patent #808897, for the “Apparatus for Treating Air”).
2. Cell phone: The father of the cell phone is Martin Cooper who first demonstrated the technology in 1973.
3. Traffic lights: The first known traffic signal appeared in London in 1868 near the Houses of Parliament. Designed by JP Knight, it featured two semaphore arms and two gas lamps. The earliest electric traffic lights include Lester Wire’s two-color version set up in Salt Lake City circa 1912, James Hoge’s system (US patent #1,251,666) installed in Cleveland by the American Traffic Signal Company in 1914, and William Potts’ 4-way red-yellow-green lights introduced in Detroit beginning in 1920. New York City traffic towers began flashing three-color signals also in 1920.
4. Open heart surgery: Surgery on the actual human heart muscle, and not just the pericardium, was first successfully accomplished by Ludwig Rehn of Germany when he repaired a wounded right ventricle in 1896.
5. Gas mask. Not Garrett Morgan. The invention of the gas mask predates Morgan’s breathing device by several decades. Early versions were constructed by the Scottish chemist John Stenhouse in 1854 and the physicist John Tyndall in the 1870s, among many other inventors prior to World War I
6. Almanac: Mesopotamia – modern day Iraq.
7. Pencil Sharpener: An earlier device of a similar type was devised in 1888 by G.H. Courson (patent #388533), and sold under the name “President Pencil Sharpener.”
9. Typewriter: The first working typewriter known to have actually been built was the work of Pellegrino Turri of Italy in 1808.
10. Tricycle: In Germany in the year 1680 or thereabouts, paraplegic watchmaker Stephan Farffler built his own tricycle at 22 years of age. He designed it to be pedaled with the hands, for obvious reasons
Adam,
Thanks for the clarification. While I disagree wholeheartedly with Dr. Watson and his legion of racists who continue to maintain the intellectual inferiority of Africans and people of African descent, I feel that these arguments can easily and rationally be repudiated without relying on the personal, professional, or scientific accomplishments of individual Black people.
After all, Watson’s beef is with the Black population as a whole and, in my experience, whenever a racist is challenged with the question of the accomplishments of exceptional Black people, the tendency is to simply treat those Black people as exceptions. But racism is an ideology that is antipathetic to all Black people and bringing up exceptional Black people is not, in my opinion, the best challenge to racism. As Black people, we don’t all need to invent or discover something in order to rise above the racist’s narrow view. AFter all, most Europeans and people of European descent have and will never invent or discover something, but that does not mean that White people are unintelligent.
The problem is that our frame of reference is so skewed by racism and racial prejudice that any accomplishment by individual White people is interpreted as a positive reflection on all White people, while any accomplishment by individual Black people is taken as an exception.
Hopefully we can someday move beyond crude racial totalization to the point where all people will be judged only on their own merit as individuals and not on the basis of their skin color or hair texture.
well really it doesn’t matter if u black or white it just depends who that person is as an individual && if that the case blacks look better then whites but i couldn’t really say that it depends on that person but you is ugly just as well as your personality
if blacks ARE not so INTELLIGENT then please tell me why are we about 2 have a BLACK MAN in head of the government OH in case he doesn’t get assassinated BEFORE!!!
Much is made of the present Black IQ score of 85. White racists use it to show why they feel that Black societies, including ancient ones, have accomplished little. Not only is the Black IQ the same as it has always been, but it is irremediable, as IQ is, so the White racists say, 80% genetic.There are some serious problems with this analysis.
First of all, one must understand just what an IQ score really is. An IQ score is merely a relative score, and as scores rise, the tests are regularly re-normed at the 100 average here in the US. Therefore, the 20 point IQ rise has been completely masked.
Whites scored 100 and Blacks scored 85 in 1925. In 1995, after a 20 point rise in both groups, Whites scored 100 and Blacks scored 85 once again. Do you follow? The regular renorming 8of the tests reduced the gains to invisibility. Further, a score of 85 is not necessarily “low” and a score of 115 or even 130 is not necessarily “high”. With average set at 100, the scores work like this: 66% of the group will score between 85 and 115 – 15% of the group will score between 70 and 85 and another 15% will score between 115 and 130. 2% will score below 70 and another 2% will score above 130.
Suppose we ran into some aliens on another planet who had managed to design their own IQ tests. Suppose they were 10 times more intelligent on average than we are. Suppose they normed their tests exactly the way we do above.
The aliens who scored in the lowest 2% might still be, say, seven times smarter than the average human! If they gave their tests to us, we might receive an average score of 30, or below the lowest 1% of their society. On their test, that would be considered seriously retarded. Do you follow?
Now suppose we went to another planet and found another population. Suppose this group of aliens was not very intelligent yet. Suppose some of the brighter ones had set up their own IQ test with the score breakdown above and normed for their population.
We might find that the upper 2% of their population, scoring over 130 on the test, actually has an IQ equivalent to humans of 85. 85% of us would be considered “gifted” on their test. Understand?
The tests are relative. Set at 100, 15% of any population will score 70-85. Whether or not that is “slow” depends on the intelligence level of the population itself.
Second, Blacks of all ages, not just Black children, are reducing the Black-White IQ gap. Between 1972-2002, Black IQ at age 24 rose from 79 to 84.5, a gain of 5.5 points. A similar gain was seen amongst Black children. Even racists Arthur Jensen and Phillipe Rushton agree that the Black-White gap is not immutable. To continue to harp on this theme in face of contradictory evidence is either ignorance or White racism.
White racists are in agreement that the Black average IQ of 85 is “low”.
To this they ascribe all sorts of Black problems and pathologies.
White racists take it further and say that an average IQ of 70-85 (depending on the region) prevents Blacks from creating decent and civilized societies anywhere on Earth.
Are the studies of no value that show African-Americans or Asians doing differently than so-called “white” Americans on standardized IQ tests? That is, is the work of people like Herrnstein and Murray worthless? No. It is valuable data, but it is also explosive data because of our racist political history. Such data will inevitably be exploited by white supremacists, twisted for their own political goals and used not to improve racial relations in America but to encourage further racial strife. Such data consists mainly of correlations. And while correlations should convince orthodox empirical scientists of nothing, to the racist researcher, correlations are the heart and soul of their work. The furor that The Bell Curve caused died down quickly because there occurred an ongoing saga which usurped its political and entertainment value. In fact, Herrnstein and Murray, in chapter after chapter, call for social reforms to improve the status of blacks in America. They may be disingenuous calls, but they are nevertheless inconsistent with the notion that the social condition of blacks in America is due to genetic factors. If genes led to the black underclass of young thugs who murder each other on a daily basis in almost every city in America, then there would be no point in calling for educational or vocational programs, no point in urging a change of focus for black men and women in their families, as even the black supremacist Louis Farrakhan has recommended with his million man march.
One can’t deny that the majority of young men killing each other in gang wars are minorities. But one can deny that the reason they are so violent and immoral is because of their race. That is false and an insult to the majority of blacks and other minorities who are decent, law-abiding persons. One can’t deny that minorities are undereducated as a group and underrepresented in our colleges and universities, and in the professions and skilled trades. But one can deny that the reason minorities are underrepresented is because their race makes them genetically inferior and incapable of competing with “white” America. Even so, it is true that many minorities are not in college or working as doctors or lawyers or teachers or auto mechanics, etc., because of their race.
It is possible that some day we may be able to look at people of different races and see them as human beings without losing sight of what is special and unique about racial or ethnic membership. We do not need to be colourblind, nor should we strive to ignore racial differences. But they should be seen in a proper perspective: significant in forming us, but irrelevant to our status as human beings capable of both the highest moral and intellectual behaviour and of bestial depravity and moronic incompetence.
Being a member of the race regarded as the race with high intelligence gives one a right to superiority and justifies inequality, regardless of one’s individual deficiencies. It also justifies racism, since if inferior people are succeeding they must be cheating the truly superior people out of their just inheritance. It also justifies believing things about oneself that have no objective validity.
Aja,
Thank you so much for your well thought-out and articulate comment.
I agree with your sentiments wholeheartedly.
I havent been able to read all the remarks but some of them were certainly interesting and I could spend hours commenting on them.
I do think it is pointless to discuss these things without knowing the scientific basis on which Watson’s comments were made. As some have pointed out, intelligence is a highly subjective thing, and his results cold be biased based on what definition or test of intelligence he used. It would also be important to assess whether his measure of intelligence could have been influenced by environmental/ experiential factors.
But I think a more important note is that he has utterly failed to use anything approaching tact on this subject. His statement that “people who have worked with blacks [know that they are not as intelligent]” is so ridiculous. I mean, how intelligent can this guy be? That is totally a matter of perception, (i.e. the people who work with blacks) which is often flawed. If it were even shown somehow scientifically that blacks in the workplace are not as intelligent, that would still leave the very likely possibility that this was caused by environmental factors such as less access to education, etc. I can’t believe he would even think this is evidence in any way to support his theory.
I think some of his findings are not necessarily harmful- for example maybe it is true that exposure to sunlight affects libido (who knows?) But the way he has presented these findings totally lacks in tact.
Nick, I think also that if history were any indicator, then the Chinese would have to be considered the most intelligent by your logic, since they advanced the most at the earliest stage in history. However, I doubt this reflects on the genetic intelligence of the population, but rather other factors at play in their region at that time. In any case, that assumption is highly questionable.
I think its important to note that Watson says the difference is negligible. For me, the best starting point is to assume that human beings are equal, because this enables us to work for equality and fair treatment, rather than getting stuck squabbling over silly things like this.
Abdul congrats for your post which has stimulated such a lively discussion!
Patrick,
It’s nice to run into you again. Thanks for reading my post(s) and for leaving thoughtful comments.
I agree with you entirely about Watson’s comments. He eventually retracted his words and admitted there was no scientific basis for them.
Anyway, regardless of what the science says, I fear some people will use any information to argue that some are genetically superior and others are genetically inferior.
We’re all entitled to our own opinions I suppose.
To Abdul, Re: #89
Actually, I think Watson is referring to some tangible research, i.e. its not just his racism that’s coming out. That doesn’t mean he’s not racist though!
Although I may be wrong, there may actually be no such research…
Patrick,
I don’t think Watson was referring to scientific research. He actually said there was no scientific basis for his words. Watson may not be a racist—in other words, I can’t prove that he’s a racist—but I think what he said was pretty racist.
In some of my follow-up posts on the subject, other commenters touched on the issue of IQ testing. And in my uber-long “Racism’s Beauty Lies in it’s Simplicity” posts I explained why there could be no scientific basis for Watson’s statements. Put simply, Black Americans and Africans are not genetically identical, so even if the science says conclusively that both groups are less intelligence—which it doesn’t—the explanation would have to lie elsewhere, not in genetics (which is Watson’s specialty).
This old ass white guy doesnt know what he is talking about. I will shoot him in his damn head what niggas rule.
Jessica,
While I agree that Dr. Watson doesn’t know what he’s talking about, I have to admit that your threat to shoot him in the head along with your use of the word “niggas” doesn’t give me a much better impression of you.
People are not created the same, of course there is a difference in different races. Does it mean one is smarter than the other, intelligence is very subjective. I would tend to think the ones that rule the world are more mathematical and logical rather than emotional and spiritual. Does this make it right, it’s just how the human race has evolved.
Lucy,
Thanks for your comment.
I have to disagree though about the “rulers” being more mathematical and logical. I don’t see how power equals mathematical- or logic-mindedness.
I do agree with you that some people—perhaps even cultures?—are more spiritual but again, I don’t think rationality or spirituality or emotionality have anything to do with intelligence. Not the type of intelligence Dr. Watson was referencing anyway?
Thoughts?
Abdul
I have read all your comments on the page and i have to say your intelligence is actually mind blowing. I found everything you said both logical and interesting.
Wow!
Thanks for that comment, Sam. It’s always good to get positive reinforcement.
Thanks too for reading my blog. I hope you get a chance to read some of the other posts and weigh in with your thoughts and comments.
Thanks again. You just made my day.
@ Abdul Kargbo
I understand the desire to attack Watson about his claim that Aficans are less intelligent. Promoting this idea is just plain harmful. But I can’t help being curious about this issue. Intelligence…that is problem solving ability is the characteristic, which distinguishes humans from all other animals and as such, it seems reasonable to accept that it might vary among human population groups? Just as some populations groups are on average taller, faster or whatever trait you arbitrarily choose to measure. Defining populations can be quite arbitrary too. Skin color is a salient characteristic and we can’t help but to break people up into that kind of population group.
Abdul you said something that struck me as a bit inconsistent with your belief that African/Black populations don’t have less intelligence.
Abdul wrote this @ Lucy:
“I do agree with you that some people—perhaps even cultures?—are more spiritual but again, I don’t think rationality or spirituality or emotionality have anything to do with intelligence. Not the type of intelligence Dr. Watson was referencing anyway?”
It seems to me that intelligence is just another characteristic…like rationality, spirituality or emotionality. But we do place a very high value on intelligence…whatever it is. If cultures can have more of the later three then might one or the other culture have more intelligence? Now you might object to my suggestion that a culture is like a population group? Here’s a dictionary definition of culture: “the sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and transmitted from one generation to another.” Africans are a particular group of human beings and it can be said that there are African, European or Asian cultures. So it seems to me that the belief (you did say perhaps) that some cultures are more spiritual, rational or emotional is consistent with the claim that some groups are less intelligent. There is evidence that this is the case based on the certain mental test. What evidence do you have which suggest that some cultures are more spiritual?
You said that you don’t think rationality has anything to do with intelligence!? Really, why not? Rationality: “The quality or state of being rational; agreement with reason; possession of reason; due exercise of reason; reasonableness.” I can imagine why you said you don’t think spirituality and emotionality have anything to do with intelligence but it’s not clear to me why they do not? How do you measure spirituality?
Abdul said this @ KIRAAA O_O
“To date, there is no scientific evidence that intelligence has a genetic basis and so there is no proof that entire populations can be more or less intelligent than entire other populations. Certainly the result of “intelligence tests” can be skewed by social and historical realities—as you rightly point out in your comment—but even these tests are seriously flawed in terms of cultural bias, etc”
The idea that there is no scientific evidence that intelligence has a genetic basis is shocking to me! Do you believe that the difference in cognitive ability between fish, chimps and humans is not due to genetic coding? Do you really believe that the difference between a writer such as yourself and the average person who has been in school for twelve+ years and yet cannot write a good paragraph is due entirely to the environment? Do you believe that the difference in jumping ability between an Olympic caliber athlete and the average person is due entirely to training? I believe that some intelligence test are flawed due to cultural bias but I just have a hard time believing that that explains all the difference in performance between individuals and the various populations group that we can see.
Subfive,
Thanks for reading my blog and leaving a comment. I apologize in advance if my response doesn’t address all the points you raised in your comment, but I hope that gives us the opportunity to have a dialog; after all, one comment each probably won’t resolve the issue.
On your first point about the definition of intelligence, you wrote:
I agree that problem-solving skills could be a component of intelligence, but it is just one component. But even if we look only at this one component, we can see that it too will be subject to cultural bias and/or situational contexts. For example, a hip urban teenager from Brooklyn might have a high ability to “survive” in a high-crime neighborhood in, say, Chicago. She might quickly be able to figure out the subway/public transporation system, find a job, figure out where the best shopping deals are, etc. Her ability to solove problems in Chicago would definitely be greater than that of a teenager who’s lived all his life in a village in Sierra Leone. But similarly, that village teenager has greater problem-solving abilities in his own cultural/situational context. I don’t see what intelligence has to do with these kids’ ability to survive in different contexts.
As for intelligence being similar to spirituality or rationality, I don’t entirely agree. Spirituality does vary from person to person, and perhaps even from culture to culture, but I think of spirituality as something chosen, something voluntary, something changeable. I would measure spirituality by the degree to which a person or group expresses a belief in the supernatural, the extent to which s/he wants to increase her/his knowledge of and connection with the divine, etc. I’m not a religious person, but I am spritual. Or perhaps it’s mere superstition. But although what I believe can be the result of the environments/cultures in which I’ve lived, to a large extent, I have chosen to believe what I belive. Watson’s understand of intelligence, on the other hand, is not something chosen. Rather, it is immutable and fixed (other commenters on my blog have discussed the unfixed and mutable nature of the intelligence Watson addresses so I won’t go back to that).
Likewise, I believe rationality is a system of thought that, among other things, emphasizes a reliance on proof and evidence, i.e., the scientific method. But again, I would hesitate to say that rationality has anything to do with intelligence. One could argue that religious societies, relying on faith and miracles as they do, are less rational and thus less “intelligent” than more rational societies, but that would mean that religiousity and intelligence are mutually exclusive. However, the Jesuits are famous for being the most educated and erudite members of the Catholic clergy, but one would not suggest that their religiousity—much of which is founded on “irrational” [read unprovable] beliefs—renders them less “intelligent.”
On to the scientific basis of intelligence:
Watson himself admitted there is no scientific basis for his statements. I have yet to see anything that says there is a genetic basis for intelligence, which explains differences in “intelligence” between different races. I’ve argued elsewhere (see the post For Dr. Watson and Other Racists, Racism’s Beauty Lies in its Simplicity) that the huge genetic variability among African populations (the greatest in any human population) rules out the possibility that their “lower intelligence” (assuming that it can be convincingly proven that they are indeed less intelligent) has anything to do with genetics.
Secondly, the “difference in cognitive ability between fish, chimps and humans” is due to the fact that these are three different species. Of couse their “intelligence” levels would be different. Part of the reason for this is that the species’ survival needs are different. Of what use is abstract three-dimensional thinking to a fish? (not that I know for sure that fish are incapable of such cognitive feats). More importantly, the “races” of humans—population subgroups distinguished by skin color, hair texture, physical stature, language groupings, etc.—are, unlike fish and chimps, NOT separate species!!! There is only one species of human known as homo sapiens and we are all members of that species.
Certainly, some people are taller or shorter or faster or stronger or able to jump higher than others. I hope you’re not arguing that entire races are more athletic or physically capable than others. Individual members of some groups may show greater physical or athletic prowess than individual members of the same group, or of other groups. Same with intelligence. Individual members of one group may show greater “intelligence” on tests than individual members of their group or another group.
Case in point, look at the European football (soccer) leagues. How is it that Germany (with an all-White, all-German) team did so well in the most recent Euro 2008 tournament? How is it that the all-White, all-Italian team beat the mostly-African French team in the 2006 World Cup? Because there are good athletes in every population. If you want to know why so many Black Americans end up in sports, look at social, economic, cultural, and historical constraints and not at skin color. Once upon a time, professional boxing in the US was dominated by White boxers forced into the profession by socioeconomic constraints.
If you read my other, longer post on the subject, you will see that I favor a more rational, academic discussion of the issue. I don’t believe that a racial analysis will yield more information than a sociopolitical/socioeconomic/sociocultural analysis, and I prefer to try to understand differences among individuals and groups along these lines, not on the basis of skin color.
I don’t believe individual accomplishments are due entirely to training or environment, but again, the focus must be on individual. But neither do I believe that the challenges facing entire populations can be explained by genetics alone. The sheer fact of genetic diversity rules out most genetic explanations. On an individual basis, we are all different. But the fundamental argument that everyone who shares the same skin color, hair texture, stature, etc. is identical—or more similar to one another than to people of other “races”—is a flawed one.
Well black people are a little primitive, no question about that.
manchild,
Your idiocy merits identification, but not a response.
@Abdul Kargbo
I appreciate your quick reply and fair analysis of my points. The short definition I gave of intelligence was not meant to be all encompassing. It was my attempt to describe what I think most people think intelligence is. But I might be wrong about that? People have the greatest ability among animals at manipulating the environment to satisfy their desires. In order to satisfy desires we must solve all types of problems. When we speak of intelligence, is this not what we all basically have in mind? At issue is whether or not population groups, distinguished by race, vary in intelligence because of genetic differences. It’s obvious that individuals vary in intelligence and other behavioral traits. But it’s not obvious that there are significant differences in behavioral traits between large populations consisting of millions of individuals. Watson suggested that there is a significant difference in intelligence between a large population group, based on race, and his own. He has no proof for this and as I said before promoting such an idea is harmful. But in trying to show that he is wrong I think you made some claims that are not quite correct.
In your reply, you said:
“I agree that problem-solving skills could be a component of intelligence”.
By saying “could be a component” you seem to not be sure that problem-solving is a component of intelligence? In your example about the hip urban teenager and the teen in Sierra Leone, you seem to be saying that there is no way to compare the two teen’s problem-solving ability…because they are from different environments? This seems like saying that, person X is good at doing job A and person Y is good at doing job B. Jobs A and B are different. So you can’t compare their intelligence because the jobs are different? And furthermore, intelligence has nothing to do with how well they do their jobs? If that’s what you mean, it seems wrong? I think it’s logically possible to compare these individuals if there is a valid test of intelligence. I don’t think we need to deny reality at this level in order to show that someone like Watson is wrong. We all agree that individuals vary in intellectual ability. The variation is the result of the interaction between genes and environment, not some unchanging genetic cause.
You said:
“ As for intelligence being similar to spirituality or rationality, I don’t entirely agree.” And also; you said “I believe rationality is a system of thought that, among other things, emphasizes a reliance on proof and evidence, i.e the scientific method. But again I would hesitate to say that rationality has anything to do with intelligence.”
Again, this seems to me like you are denying reality in order to show that Watson is wrong? And I think you inadvertently make a mistake similar to the one in which some people make when they claim that Blacks are intrinsically better athletes than whites?
First, I think in the context the terms are being used, they represent personality traits. But even so, I can’t see how rationality has “nothing” to do with intelligence? You described it as a system of thought…as in thinking, which must have something to do with intelligence! Anyone who is thought of as “highly” rational is certainly considered intelligent. If they are thought of as highly emotional we normally think they are the opposite of rational? As I said before, I think these traits are aspects of personality in the context of our discussion. If they are, then we’re faced with the research which strongly indicates that variation among people in personality traits is the result of gene-environment interactions just as intelligence is. If this is true, then I don’t think you really get to chose to be emotional or rational as you suggest, anymore than you choose to be intelligent.
Secondly, culture is not something an individual controls. The individual is affected by the culture in which he finds himself. Even if you actually “choose to believe what you believe” your tendency to have a certain attitude is an expression of some personality trait, which takes us back to gene-environment interactions. Yes, you can select this or that religious system or be spiritual (I think the difference between religious and spiritual is rather superficial). But I think your notion that spirituality is voluntary and changeable does not show that personality traits are fundamentally unlike intelligence as behaviors which are grounded in our biology.
When I wrote that I was shocked by your claim that there is no scientific evidence that intelligence has a genetic basis, maybe I took that statement out of context. But it seems that it can stand apart from what Watson said? I think your statement is misleading. I just take for granted that intelligence…something based on brain function must have much to do with genetics. That’s why I mentioned fish, chimps and humans. Your point that fish have no need for abstract three-dimensional thinking is off the point. My point is that a fish is not as intelligent as a human because they lack a genome sufficient to produce intelligence equal to chimps or humans regardless of environmental influence. Our behavioral traits are a product of our genes interacting with the environment. The best environment in the world will not enable a fish or chimp to perform intellectually on par with a human. Why not? Genetically they are not evolved to be as intelligent as homo sapiens. Of course human population subgroups of different colors and hair textures are the same species. But it does not follow that the behavioral differences have nothing at all to do with genes. The very fact that we are all of the same species and yet have measurable differences shows that versions of the same genes react differently in the same environment. You just can’t say all the differences we see have “nothing” to do with genetics. Now that does not mean that population groups (based on color, hair, height, geography etc) are stuck forever at some arbitrarily selected performance level relative to some other population group. But it does suggest that individuals are stuck at some level. You can’t make any particular individual a world class scholar or athlete…at least not until someone figures out how to alter our genetic code in just the right way.
You asked if was arguing that entire races are more athletic or physically capable then others. No, I’m not making that argument. I think, as you explained, socioeconomic factors (environment) explain the higher frequency of certain racial groups in any given sport. Quite often people observe a higher frequency of a particular racial group in an activity and erroneously jump to the conclusion that that racial group is the best at that activity because of race.
I agree with your notion that the challenges facing entire populations can not be explained by genetics alone. We must examine the social problems at all levels. But I don’t think that it’s quite accurate to characterize the fundamental argument as being the argument that everyone who shares the same skin color, hair texture, stature, etc is identical—or more similar to one another than to people of other “races”. It’s not clear that Watson made that claim. Watson’s faulty claim was that a particular population group is less intelligent than his own.
This article should be titled “An Inconvenient Truth”… as most of you seem not to be able to handle the truth… Want to know another inconvenient truth?.. Jews are the smartest (no I’m not Jewish)! It all makes sense now doesn’t it… People hate blacks because they are idiots (to put it bluntly)… and people hate Jews because they are jealous of them. Do some research if you don’t believe me. There have been numerous studies on this very topic.
Dave Morris,
You’re an idiot.
Black people are very very smart and kind they were never mean to us and its not there fault they are black and we are all children of god no matter the colour.
Black people, ur inferior, deal with that! geez what a fucking children u r! its fact, negros have a smaller brain, a smaller IQ, and their DNA shows that they are, in general, more stupid than the white and the asians. by the way, asians are the smartest. DEAL WITH THAT! i’m white, but u dont see me crying like a baby…..wat the hell is wrong with u people??? ur more stupid than white people.period!
Jon Anderson,
That’s the funniest comment I’ve read in a long time. I really hope you’re not White because you’re not doing White people any favors!
You actually come on here talking about how Black people are inferior yet you yourself cannot type three words without misspellings or grammatical errors. WTF!!!???
Where is the DNA proof of Black people’s stupidity? Even the renowned geneticist Dr. Watson did not claim that there was any genetic proof that Black people are less intelligent.
So please, Jon Anderson, explain this to me. What have you accomplished in life to prove that you are more intelligent than every Black person on the planet? Which scientific breakthroughs have you accomplished? Which books have you read? And most importantly, how can you believe you are more intelligent than anyone while writing like an illiterate?
Oh, I get it. Through an accident of birth, something you have no control over, you happened to come out of the vagina of a White woman. Somehow, the fact you have White skin has led you to belive you are more intelligent than millions of Black people you’ve never even met.
However, your inability to write a single correct sentence in English—which I bet is the only language you speak—convinces me you’re not so smart after all. In fact, your inability to even recognize that you are borderline illiterate makes me wonder about your grasp of reality.
Consider this a reality check, Jon Anderson: there are developmentally disabled people out there who write better than you. Think about that for a moment.
i think that blacks are very interligent and whites are not very intelligent.over 65% of blacks are a levelers and whites what are you? i know you some prisoners accused of stealing a sweet from your teacher bag.
dudes,
Thanks for reading my blog and leaving a comment. I think we can all agree that Black people are not less intelligent than White people. No need to engage in the we’re-smarter-than-you debate. There are certainly variations within and across populations but the data’s not yet out there that shows one population to be more intelligent than any other.
The idea that White people are all than every Black person is a silly idea made up to justify the oppression of Black people and to help marginalized White people feel better about themselves.
It’s pointless to engage with people who think they are automatically more intelligent simply because of the color of their skin.
Dear Nick,
I cannot agree with your stance that the advancement of Greeks and Romans is a point that could justify the bigoted remarks of Mr. Watson.
With that set aside, I thought I might point out that the Egyptian civilization was the most advanced for its time. The pyramids, considered to be one of the seven wonders of the world, were built in Africa some 2000 years before Rome was founded.
Julia
There are many comments on this article, I would like to say that Mr. Watson needs a facial surgeon.
Paul Krugman,
Is that really you?
You’re my hero.
There was an article in April this year about curvy women.
“Women with curvy figures are likely to be brighter than waif-like counterparts and may well produce more intelligent offspring, a US study suggests. Researchers studied 16,000 women and girls and found the more voluptuous performed better on cognitive tests – as did their children.”
As far as I know African women are one of the curviest.
Who is wrong then??
Personally I think Intelligence has completely nothing to do with the race or body shape. It’s all been made up by idiots for other idiots excitement.
Well seeing as African’s were still living in tribes 150 odd years ago, until white men brought them over to north america, it’s pretty ludicrous to rule out the possiblility of evolutionary differences.
I’m not neccesarily saying blacks are less intelligent then whites, i’m just saying that while whites were indulged in newtechnology and living in modernised homes, black people were still dancing around fires and sleeping on the dirt.
This is mostly the reason why africa is such a terrible place now. Basically whites brought over modern weaponary(guns) and other things to communities that were not yet civilized.
All points aside im not totally ignorant i realise that there are extremely intelligent black people, and extremely dumb white people, and vice versa.
Abdul Kargbo,
I must say, after reading the majority of submissions on this blog, you have astounded me with your intelligence, and broad outlook on this matter. I say this truthfully, not out of sarcasm. I personally am a young adult, caucasian male, and I feel that Dr. Watson is a disgrace to anyone who is in any scientific field of study. I am personally a physiologist, and I have worked with many human subjects for my research…. of many different races. Physiologically, all races within the United States are virtually identical, with the exception of a few genetic markers for susceptibility to certain diseases. Based on your apparent education level, Im sure you have taken basic biology courses that teach us that the human gene structure is the building block of almost every physiological aspect of the human body. If the supposed “races” had any major discernable difference in genetic structure, it would appear in the individuals physiological makeup.
I truly apprecaite the fact that you use logic, biological science, and anthropology to build and execute your statements. I am in complete agreeance with every statement that you have made thus far, and would like to hear your opinion on my statements.
B-dog, Dave Morris, and John Anderson,
Based on your commentary, I can only assume that you are of caucasian descent as well? In my opinion, you are a disgrace to the white race. For those Africans/African Americans out there reading this, please know, that all white people are not like these ignorant wastes of oxygen. Oh, B-Dog/DM/JA, to avoid confusion…. Oxygen is the component in the air (give or take 19-21%) which we utilize to live. It is a gaseous element found on the periodic table #16. Your accusations about the “black race” as a whole hold no scientific merit, especially since your comments were stated so intelligently. Please feel free to pick up a book, and expand your education, because it is obviously much needed. If you are confused by my statements earlier, or have anything of value to rebut my claims, please feel free to respond to this blog.
Black Girl, BlackGyal, KeiKei, Malissa, Jessica, and Aalishna Edwards,
I realize that you are all very disgruntled by the claims made by Dr. Watson. As I stated earlier, I am a caucasian, and by no means do I agree with what he said. Some of the most intelligent people I have ever met have been of African descent. However, responding to a blog with curse words and very informal slang does not help the issue. I realize that comments were made out of frustration and outrage to some of the commentary and Dr. Watson, but to rednecks such as B-dog, Dave Morris, and John Anderson, they look at it as you just helping their poorly stated points.
I am personally against racism, and it bothers me that it still exists in this day and age. While comments from Dr. Watson hurts you all as individuals, your comments are equally as ignorant and racist. No race is less intelligent than any other. As with most statistical data applied to a population, intelligence would more than likely fall into a normal distribution, and every race would have its outliers: some extremely intelligent, and some extremely uneducated.
Claims that black people are better at sports yet are less intelligent are absurd, and I disagree whole heartedly. I used to be an intramural powerlifter, and one of my teammates/good friends was an african man. We were almost the same weight/build/body composition, yet I was stronger than him. However, almost every semester, he obtained better grades than me in very similar classes. Point proven.
Racism is a nasty issue that goes both ways though. I grew up dirt poor, in a single parent household, in a very bad neighborhood. Despite this, I have heard time and time again, that all white people are rich, stuck on themselves, and uptight. Since I was born, I have never fit one of these criteria. I worked hard ever since I was a kid to get out of the neighborhood I was living in so I could go to college and get an education, even though I had to take out student loans and work 40 hours a week while in school to pay for it. There are many names that unintelligent people use to describe people of African descent, and it is very unforgivable. However, with as much as this hurts African Americans, I have been called countless names such as “Cracker, white boy, rich-a$$ white boy, cracker-a$$ mf’er, etc…”by African Americans. Despite popular belief, intelligent white people do find this to be degrading and hurtful. I have never referenced an African American in a degrading manner, and I would prefer to not be referred to in such a manner as well. I have been pushed, shoved, threatened, and persecuted by African Americans for no reason other than the fact that I am a caucasian, yet I have never held a grudge. As you see, racism works both ways, and we all need to change our ways and be more accepting of eachother. Still to this day, two of my best friends are African Americans, and in my eyes they are my equals, and i dont consider them to be any different from myself.
@exphys,
Thank you so much for you intelligent, insightful, and sympathetic comment. It’s refreshing to get something other than the usual insensitive and sometimes outright racist remarks.
In response to the rest of your comment, I agree wholeheartedly with you. You bring up a vital point about the misperceptions of class based on “race” (i.e., skin color), and I am truly sorry that you have experienced bullying and threatening behavior at the hands of Black people. It’s no consolation but I too have had similar experiences: all I can say is that some people are just *ssholes and don’t know how to behave themselves. It’s a pity and it makes me sad to think that you would be targeted for assault or physical and verbal harassment simply because you are a White person.
But such is the nature of racism and the racial consciousness/tension it breeds. We notice difference, attach meaning to that difference, interpret that meaning as a negative trait, and use that percieved negativity to pre-judge and devalue people. Once people have been devalued, it becomes easier to harass and/or do violence to them.
Sadly, it cuts both ways.
Again, thanks for your comment. I would love to continue this conversation as you strike me as someone well-informed and genuinely sensitive to the issue. Also, if you have the time or inclination, take a look at a longer and more detailed post in which I lay out my issues with Dr. Watson’s statements.
Abdul Kargbo,
I read the article through the link that you posted. I replied with a rather lengthy, yet meaningful commentary on the first section of it. I hope it is of interest to you, and with any luck, maybe it will prevent any future comments from uninformed racists that lack logical thinking and tact.
exphys,
I read through your other comment and was very happy that you addressed the haters in a rational, logical way and with answers based on science. That’s the trouble with racism: it might have started out as an excuse that justified the exploitation of other people’s land, resources, labor, and bodies but over the centuries it has evolved into something of an ideology. The committed racists are dogmatic in their adherence to these ideas and believe that individual personal traits are rooted in markers of “race.”
But at the end of the day, with very few exceptions, those who put forth a race-based argument have no science to back them, only sentiment and emotion. To use your example of incarceration statistics, someone who is already unsympathetic to Black people will see those figures as further proof of Black people’s dishonesty, laziness, or criminal tendencies. A sympathetic person (like yourself) will see those numbers as proof of over-arresting, over-prosecution, and over-conviction. But at the end of the day, countries without large, skin-color-minority populations (like many European countries) still have populations that are over-represented in the criminal justice system and/or under-represented in higher education. For a long time in England, it was the working poor. In Central and Southern Europe, it’s the Roma. And in countries with large non-White immigrant populations (like West and North Africans in France), it’s those people who are more likely to wind up in jail and less likely to end up in college.
So while “race” might be a convenient culprit, those folks who ignore history, politics, economics, psychology, jurisprudence, and virtually every other academic discipline in their discussion of “race” are simply intellectually lazy.
Glad you’re not one of those, and even gladder to have you my side.
By the way, I wrote a lengthier response to your longer comment here.
Abdul,
First of all, let me say that I am intrigued by the fact that you’ve managed to keep this blog going for more than a year now, and to my own starndads thats trully amazing. I sat down and read all the the responses from people, and for that I now have a deeper anderstanding on issues about race. I also can’t bilieve how inteligent you are, because you have managed to win every argument presented upon you.
Furthermore, i’m a 21 year old college student, and I came to the U.S. from kenya about 6 years ago. The one thing I want to point out is the fact we have racist educators in this country, and for that reason I’m paying bitter consiquences for their actions. I lived most of my life in kenya, and might i add that there was no one time in my childhood was I ever seen as a person with no bright future. kenyan teachers always thought and told me that i was bright. To keep a long story short i basically had the easiest time in high school. I never studied, all I did was pay attention in classe and i would get good grades. I tried to get into advanced cources that would give me an edge in college since my plan was to be an engineer, but my advisor would always tell me that that was not a good idea. She simply thought highschool was my last stop. Now I’m in college behind by a whole year because i have to catch up.
My point here is to basically say that people of color get low expectations from anglo saxons, and because that reason a lot of colored people aren’t reaching their true potentials. I hold this to be true because I experienced it first hand. The race card is already out their and the only we can do is to try to convince people from revelling to their children. Or better yet tell thier children that its not even a true card only and allusion.
Hi Eli,
It’s great to hear from you. Thanks for reading my blog and leaving a comment. I sympathize with you wholeheartedly because of your experiences.
I had a similar experience too when I arrived. I was put in all remedial classes in my US high school, which I attended for two years. I had to retake many subjects that I had already covered in Sierra Leone, where I’m from. I was put in remedial history and math classes. And I did so well in my classes that I was able to transfer into Advanced Placement (AP) based on teacher’s recommendations (when AP classes were available, of course because we didn’t have AP classes for all subjects). But while most of my regular classes had had majority Black students in them, my AP classes had close to 50% (sometimes more) White students. When you consider that my high school was majority Black (90-something percent) but that the AP classes were 50% or more White, it makes you wonder what was going on. The really sad thing is that there were a fair number of Black teachers at my school and they were perfectly happy to have low expectations for me. In fact, it was a White male teacher who transferred me from the regular US History class into the AP History class in the middle of the year. I went on to take the AP US History exam and I scored a 4 (5 is the highest score), the highest score in the school. And I had only been living in the US for a year at the time.
Long story short, I went on to college, made Dean’s List every semester, still had plenty of time to party, and graduated with honors. Yet I still continue to meet plenty of people whose behavior towards me gives me the impression that they don’t think I’m intelligent. But I have no control over their behavior. I can only control how I react to them.
So, that being said, I’m happy to hear that you’re in college and are getting caught up on your coursework. College is a little more challenging than high school, so you probably won’t be able to get away with never studying.
I wish you all the best in your academic pursuits.
And thanks again for your comment.
its not true he didnt even do tests on it or anything on it thats his opinion
IMO they put too many points in STR and not enough in INT.
It’s all whitey’s fault! Fuck you niggers.
Geoffrey,
Thank you very much for your eloquent and articulate comment.
I’m totally convinced now that Dr. Watson was right all along.
I feel blacks have just as much potential as any other race. I think underachievement has more to do with culture than IQ.
Asians comprise of a small fraction of the populace, yet in California they are close to 50% of UC enrolled students. 49% of asians aged 25 have at least a Bachelor’s and also have the highest proportion of college graduates of any race or ethnic group in the country. They also have the highest median income out of all races.
This is not simply due to IQ. I personally know many stupid asians, but even they finished at universities.
It is due to the extreme importance placed on education and the cultural/familial pressure to achieve. I’m Korean myself, and during elementary school if I got B’s I’d be punished. During summers, I had to take extra classes and tutoring sessions for everything, along with SAT prep schools and Korean language classes.
I was constantly compared to other higher achieving peers and pressured to outdo them.
I have a Bachelor’s in Visual Communications from Westwood College. I mean a BA should be considered good, yet still I am considered a failure as far as my parents are concerned because I didn’t go to a big name 4 year university.
Now how many black kids have this kind of pressure to succeed in school?
Latinos and African Americans have the lowest scores and UC enrollment in California, and guess what, culturally they have the LEAST pressure to succeed.
Research shows black and latino kids on average study less and watch more TV or play outside compared to whites and asians. When I was younger, all my Mexican friends ran free all day long, never did their homework, and watched TV as much as they wanted. Their parents didn’t care. I was so envious of them. Now I realize this lack of expectations is exactly why many of them are now working minimum wage jobs or some type of manual labor.
I know many highly educated and successful Mexicans and blacks, and most of them had strict parents who placed high importance on education. I believe this is the difference.
This is exactly what Bill Cosby has been saying for years. Set the bar HIGH, and even if you fail, you’ll still end up better than most. His son Ennis was a high achiever before he was killed, and this is probably because Cosby taught his son the importance of education. His show was well loved and portrayed positive black role models. He lived through the civil rights era and has tried so hard to set a higher standard for his people. Yet they call him a sellout for denouncing the ignorance that is being glorified these days.
I think if a shift of priorities and values takes place within the culture we will see just as many blacks in skilled professions as we do in sports or entertainment, but thanks to BET, MTV, and the media in general, I don’t see it happening too soon.
Ignorance is just too profitable it seems.
this is for all you people out there… trust me nobody cares what race or background u r from as long as u’re on the top.wear your skin color with pride and to hell with the rest of the world.i’m not white n i’ve never let that get in my way.i’m doin graduation in biotechnology n i’m in the top five in my class.
n as far as Dr. Watson is concerned his comments are way too immature.how can anybody compare intelligence based on skin color?
n just where are v indians and asians???we happen to be more than 1/3rd of the world population and he very conveniently seems to have left us out!!
wen v talk about african intelligence , a lot of other factors come into play..take for eg. india…though india seems to be doin very well economically a lot of people are denied some basic needs such as shelter, food , water etc..n if u ask them to take an IQ test they won’t do well(for obvious reasons)whereas the rest of us with good schooling will score really high.so race doesn’t really play an important role.when people are unable to get one square meal a day what do u expect them to do?similarly there is way too much poverty, corruption, illiteracy etc in these african nations.give them time n they’ll do well.
n whichevr jackass said AIDS n intelligence are corelated… lemme tell u dts not the case.India has the second highest number of people affected by this disease and yet v score more on an IQ test.
@pk.. stop cribbin dt ur parents wanted a nerd!!n dude MTV is doin well in asia too!and more importantly some people are not good at studies .mayb dts y they r doin manual jobs(not everyone can work in labs u see)
and ya i don’t know abt experiments backing this intelligence thing but i’ve heard that african people are better at sports probably because they have more mitochondria in their cells(mitochondria causes energy production).. i personally haven’t tested it though.
the thought of black people being less intelligent is too general of a solution to be all true. he based his studies on all black people for ex. african americans and africans at the same time. now i think we could understand africans having a lower intellect, they don’t have much choice on education at all. education sparks and boosts your intellect. african americans on the other hand are being educated and when you compare and african american with an african you really can notice the difference.
It may seem racist but this is guy is one of the greatest scientists and a Nobel Prize winner. He made a claim, be skeptical but respect it.
Anthony,
Thanks for your comment.
With all due respect, I reserve the right to respect Dr. Watson’s right to free speech. But the principles of free speech do not require me to respect his actual opinion.
So, to sum up: right to express opinion, I respect. Opinion, I’m not bound to respect.
I am black, very black indeed and live in mama Africa. As for Watson, That was parochial, prejuduced and rushed conclusion which is driven by hate.
First, there is nothing the whites have invented nor is there any social structure they have which is hard for an African to comprehend ( Watson that’s crap)
Alittle advise to my white brothers, necessity is the mother of invention (we simply didn’t need what we you needed and there fore we didn’t invent) Let it be known that; competition, passion, diligence and discipline are key to success in any area, and just as some Africans are illiterate because they have not gone to school, others are literate because they have gone to school, like wise some people have invented because they needed and ventured to invent.
We rarely criticize whites and we are indeed indifferent about them here in Africa, why do they go to suc ridiculuous lengths to mud smear blacks?
Lastly there is no living white today who is superior genetically than a black person! We are black, proud and unapologetic.
I just wanted to say thank you to Abdul for creating a page where individuals can freely discuss their racial beliefs. I am a middle eastern man who does not believe that the discussions of race should be seen as a social taboo. I have read each blog and I have noticed that the team arguing the old scientists point have only been able to deny the legitimacy of scientific data. I will call this side team Abdul. Aside from denying, throwing the word racist around, and attacking teem Watson, teem Abdul has not presented any clear data.
I have a few questions to ask Abdul. Please keep in mind that I am, and will stay neutral on this issue until legitimate statistical evidence is given on both sides.
Why hasn’t Liberia succeeded as a free black nation?
Why are crime statistics so squed ?
Why don’t more black people rise up and overcome?
Why hasn’t there been any data arguing for team Abdul?
Why is it accepted that black males are better athletes, and have 19% more testosterone, however it is not accepted that whites are smarter? (on average)
Looking forward to continuing this conversation.
Anonymous,
Thanks for reading my blog and leaving a comment. If you truly had read every post I’ve written in response to Dr. Watson’s comments, you would have had no need to ask me the questions you outlined above.
Every one of those can be answered from a sociological, political, or economic standpoint. “Race” as you understand it cannot explain all these differences. Liberia is an impoverished country and has been plagued by political corruption and exploitation. I don’t have time to get into a discussion of economic exploitation and underdevelopment but there are plenty of resources on the Web. Why havn’t Romania or Moldova succeeded as free White nations? Why hasn’t Pakistan succeeded as a Muslim nation? And why hasn’t Yemen succeeded as an Arab nation? Your question is silly.
As for crime statistics being skewed (I believe that’s the word you were looking for?), I believe again that can be explained not by an examination of “race” but a discussion of politics and economics. If there was a predisposition among Black people to be violent or criminal, would you not expect to see all Black people—regardless of education or income level—locked into the criminal-justice system? And how do you explain White people who end up on the wrong side of the law? Sure, most of them tend to be poor and poorly educated (just like the Black people who break the law) but are we to accept White lawbreakers as “exceptions” and Black lawbreakers as the rule? If so, I think the answer to your question lies more firmly in your perceptions and preconceived notions and not in any rational analysis.
Why don’t more Black people rise up and overcome? Have you heard about political systems? Have you heard about systems that preserve themselves? How come more Middle Easterners haven’t risen up and overcome? How come most Pakistanis live in poverty? We can ask the same question about most countries in the world and I don’t see how the failure to “rise up” (whatever rising up entails) is unique to Black people.
As for data, I urge you to dig around this blog some more. I don’t remember anyone presenting any real data that proved Black peoples’ genetic inferiority, but there is plenty of data out there disproving Dr. Watson. In fact, he himself said there was no scientific basis for what he said. Look it up: I even wrote a post about that. From a scientific standpoint, you should know it’s very hard to prove a negative. In much the same way as Dr. Watson cannot scientifically prove that he is not a racist, it is very difficult for Black people to prove, with data, that they are not genetically inferior. Any number of tests can show any number of results, which are then open to any number of interpretations. The fact that a country is impoverished is not proof that it’s people are unintelligent or genetically inferior. Until science discovers a gene for intelligence—which so far continues to elude us—we’re going to have to discuss “intelligence” in real sociopolitical and economic terms and not from a genetic-predisposition standpoint. Are people who are malnourished, uneducated, illiterate, worn down by the stresses of impoverishment going to perform differently on tests of “intelligence?” Absolutely. But how we choose to interpret those test results and the conclusions we draw about those peoples’ genetic superiority or inferiority are completely subjective.
Who has accepted that Black males are better athletes? I certainly have not accepted it and I welcome more “data” from you. Even if your uncited “statistic” about Black men having 19% more testosterone is accurate, what does that say about Black men’s and White people’s intelligence? Where is the data that proves that high testosterone results in lower intelligence? Why is it that in your mind, athleticism is inversely related to intelligence? If Black people are more athletic (something I disagree with but you seem to believe), how/why does that mean that they are less intelligent than White people? Conversely, how/why does White people’s being “smarter” correlate to their being less athletic than Black people?
So you see, anonymous, we can go round and round in circles trying to have these discussions. With the exception of your 19%-more-testosterone factoid, you have scarcely provided any data to prove that Dr. Watson was right that Black people are less intelligent. We cannot look at economic and political realities and draw “scientific” conclusions from them. That would be as silly as looking at the fact that American society incarcerates and executes a disproportionate number of Black and Latino men and concluding that all White people are evil racists. All Arabs are not terrorists simply because some use violence against civilians to accomplish their political goals. Similarly, all Black people and Africans are not stupid, lazy criminals simply because some are. That is not an intelligent way to discuss these issues.
for those individuals that believe that they are righting a wrong by throwing the word racist around, i politely ask that you think about the meaning of the word, and understand that it caries the weight of hundreds of years of misstreatment. the word racist is highly offensive. I do not believe that Watson is a racist, i simply think that he is an old scientist that has spent too much time on reasearch, and not enough time with people. in short, i think that his intentions are purely scientific, he is just not to good at sensitivity.
anonymous,
Please read this post: http://mightyminnow.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/for-dr-watson-and-other-racists-racisms-beauty-lies-in-its-simplicity/
It’s long but I hope that after reading it, you’ll understand why I think Dr. Watson is a racist. In case you don’t bother to read the full post (it’s written in two parts), let me sum up for you my definition of a racist:
A racist is anyone who believes that an individual’s personality or character are influenced by his/her skin color, hair texture, or any of the other markers of “race” as it is commonly understood.
To talk about poverty and crime and academic underachievement as merely products of “race” and not as the results of socioeconomic and political realities is racist. Pure and simple.
thank you for the prompt responce. i am curious, what is this evdence that proves genetic equality. which scientists worked on it, are they credible.
Anonymous,
To my knowledge science has not proven genetic equality. The more important point is that so far, no scientific evidence has come forward to prove genetic inequality.
The idea of genetic inferiority along “racial” lines is an idea to which many people continue to cling, but it has not been proven scientifically.
Proving “genetic equality” would be as impossible as proving that you are not stupid. Imagine, hypothetically, that someone approached you and said, “Hey anonymous, you are an idiot. Now prove to me, scientifically that you are not an idiot.” How would you go about proving that you are not something? What scientific steps would you take? What evidence would you gather? Which phenomena will you record and document? And how would you replicate your results?
More importantly, what exactly would be the proof that you are not stupid? What if the person who challenged you believes that stupidity is measured according to one set of criteria while you were relying on another?
I have done sum reasearch on this issue and regretfully i have found this.
please watch these, every issue discussed in previous blogs is adressed here.
anonymous,
Thanks for sharing those links. Unfortunately, I believe that eugenics and discussions of racial superiority/inferiority and genetic bases of intelligence cross the line between free speech and racist hate speech; so I will exercise my right to censor you. The professor featured in those videos is a well-known and controversial figure whose work has inflamed passions on both sides of the issue. What side I take on this issue should come as no surprise to you, and I do not want my blog be used as a platform for promulgating racism.
I sincerely hope you understand.
I did not draw an inverse connection between inteligence and athleticism. I oppoligize if that is the way it sounded. What i meant was that saying that black people are more creative, athletic, have better vision (on average) is ok to say. but saying the same thing about white people is not okay.
NBA mostly Blacks
NFL more Blacks than whites
track and field mostly blacks
the fastest runners in the world are black
lets get silly
black people can eat whatever they want to eat and keep their sixpacks
I believe that black people are better athletes.
just look at team USA in the olimpics. African americans are a little bit overrepresented.
Im a jew
Jews love basketball, but we suck.
anonymous,
Your observations about the representation of Black people—especially men—in professional sports could have as much to do with class as with “race.” Did you know, for example, that once upon a time boxing was a very “Jewish” sport in the US? That was back when being a Jew made it very difficult to find a “respectable” profession. Did you know, for example, that even the great Woody Allen once aspired to be a professional boxer? Same reason Jews ended up in Hollywood: once upon a time, the entertainment/film business was just not considered respectable enough for gentiles.
Anyway, read this article, which I think does a better job than I ever could of addressing race and the intelligence vs. athleticism dichotomy.
As for Black people eating whatever they want and still keeping their sixpacks, if only you were right! Are you aware of the crises of obesity, heart disease, and diabetes that is plaguing the Black American community?
And finally, for what it’s worth, I’m a Jew too. Yet from reading my blog, you assumed I’m Black. You’re only half right. You might argue that my Jewish half is responsible for my intelligence, my beer belly, and lack of athleticism but of course, I’ll disagree with you.
I understand why you would remove the videos. My intent was scientific, not racist. I have just decrared a double Major in nuerology and Genetics. (That is why this Blog interests me so much)
As of now I am still reletively nuetral on the issue of nature vs nurture when it comes to intelligence. 70% nature 30% nurture.
I just wanted to know if you have watched the videos. I put them up knowing that you would take them down. I wanted your responce for a more ballenced view on the subject.
the fact of the matter is that i want to believe that everyone is equal genetically, but I just cant jump on the bandwagon of PC culture.
I of cource respect your position in taking down the videos however wasnt this blog made for the “discussions of racial superiority/inferiority and genetic bases of intelligence” you dont have to answer that. Just a thought
by the way cool jew facts. The boxing woody alan was funny for some reason. i dont think that you disproved my belief that black people are better athletes simply by saying that once upon a time jews tried and failed. the best boxers in the world now are all russian. not kidding all of them. each leage has a russian heavy weight champion. Isnt that crazy. but boxing is a bad example it has more to do with reaction timing and stuff like that. the best sport that can be used is sprinting minimal skill so its a better example. it cuts down on externalities like how good your sparing partners are stuff like that. the best weight lifters are pursian and white. i believe that it has to do with denser muscle tissue ( on average) in the whites and pursians than the blacks. my point is that different races have their own nitches.
as for blacks having high helth problems, thats because they tend to eat worse at an older age. more money more health contious. well known statistic. poor whites eat worse than rich blacks also. although the six pack comment is silly, it does hold truth.
the aderson cooper report on cnn had a story on asians and higher test scores. i do think that the issue of iq and race is gaining momentum. i hope to see you on the news battling it someday for more than just sixty seconds.
anonymous,
Sorry for my delayed response. I was away from my PC over the long weekend. I’m glad you understand. I don’t usually censor comments but . . ..
I’m very curious to hear about the outcome of your studies. It seems the discussion of race and genetics has some people who use science to justify racist attitudest that existed before the science could even prove or disprove them and others who don’t want to see science used to institutionalize racist attitudes. I wonder if there’s a school-to-school variation between these approaches?
Tell me, what do you hope to do professionally with your degrees once you’re done? Are you considering a career in research, maybe policy? It’s a fascinating field (genetics) but as a Jewish Black person, I get very uncomfortable once people start using science to say People X are this way and People Y are that way.
Also, I’ve read that there is more genetic diversity among the African population than there is among the rest of the human populations combined, due to the relative ages of the populations. The African populations are older and have thus had more time to undergo more genetic mutation, hence the diversity. You might know more about this but I’ve always assumed that to mean that whatever “shared characteristics” we can see in Black people—athleticism, poor academic attainment, etc.—have more to do with environmental variables than with genes. But I might be totally misreading this.
Well, all the best with your studies. Stay in touch and let me know how things are going. Also, if you come across any interesting articles or studies you’d like to share, please feel free to post on here.
Cheers!
About fifteen years ago the funnel theory came out. like everything scientific its not proven however it is supposedly backed up by alot of evidence. i havent looked to deeply into this theory so i couldnt tell you the specifics of it. Apperently thousends of years ego a great world wide desaster took place and it killed a huge percentage of the world population north of the equator, (a great shift in temterature, meteor, flood, whatever) i dont think it was the ice age however, anyway the reason that “white” people are more genetically simmilar to each other has to do with the fact that their genetic pool shrank due to the dissaster. less people smaller pool of genes less people to mate with. its funny but i guess you could say that white people are more inbred. this becomes fascinating when you throw religion into the mix. scientists speculate that dissasters like these could be linked to religious stories, like the great flood. As a side note “the smartest man in the world” is trying to prove or disprove religion with the use of binary code 0’s and 1’s look it up on youtube just type in smartest man in the world.
As for my proffesion, I hope to go to dental school. when I finish up my undergrad three to four years from now. for dental school its recommended to major in a science, so I picked the two branches that interest me the most. Although going into reaserch or polocy is more interesting, i also think its more consuming. Devoting your life to your job is for some people, not for me. I couldn’t be away form my family for more that 80 hours a week.
As for scientists trying to prove that group x is always better than group Y, I think that they are looking at averages. member of group Y could be better than Members of group X.
Scientists are always going to look into the unknown, and try to make sence of it, but the second that PC, and politics gets into the scientific community like it has, science will not be able to reach its fool potential.
I think that Africans have a larger genetic diversity becouse of two underlining factors if we dont look at the funnel theory. 1) more space, Africa is such a general tearm its a contenent for goodness sake. If we look at the genetic pool in Rwanda it will be a little different than the genetic pool in zambia. just as the genetic pool in france is different than the one in germany. 2) this one also explains athleticism. slave owners only wanted the most fit people, so naturally more fit slaves mated and more fit babies were born. African americans in general are more fit that Africans.
well have a good one
anonymous,
Please accept my apologies for the delayed response. I’ve been a bit overwhelmed with professional obligations.
It sounds like you’ve chosen a great career path and I’m confident your undergraduate studies will prepare you well for it. I agree that policy—while perhaps more exciting and prestigious—does demand more time away from family, friends, etc.
Thanks too for sharing the “smartest man in the world” link. It was pretty funny.
As for the funnel theory and genetic diversity on the African continent, the research I’ve read indicates that this is a continent-wide phenomenon and not regional or country-by-country (see for example http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/01/990125073157.htm). Such findings are interesting to me because they seriously question genetic or race-based theories that uniformly attribute characteristics—like intelligence or its lack—to all Africans and people of African descent. This means that even if studies prove that Africans are, on average, “less intelligent” than other populations, the reasons might lie somewhere other than in their genes. Just a thought.
Well, all the best with your studies.
Take care.
I’m not racist, but I must agree this is true. Good schools usually tend to have more a lot more white than black people unless the african population is more than 70%. I’ve always noticed that all-african-american neighborhoods have a lot more crime,too.
I’m friends with 10 african-americans so you can’t call me racist.
Even they agree with me on this.
I think that after the big racist war in the US, there was a time when the white elites of society saw the black Americans abiding by the law etc, but then they didn’t want that, so they caused them to fight each other n have petty wars about little issues, just as the Brits mainly did to the Arabs,making them fight each other – when they were fine before they intervened wanting their oil and not wanting them to progress.
Another thing, have you noticed all the ppl that seem to win the noble prizes these days? – they are prominent writers n artists with the views that the lite of the world want others to have!
back in the old days like before the 1800’s there were cromagnans and cavemen. the humans of today are the cave men and the cave people were the idiots tocking jellyfish. all im sat=ying is that there was a huge inherint diference between the two races it wasnt being racist to say the cromagnans were stupid it was just fact.
now let me ask….perhaps blacks or other people might not be smarter. why is it that indians never evolved passed teepees and homes like that? i dont know im not a scientist. but if there was absolute proof that blacks were incapable of being smarter than whites. would it be racist to tell the public? to let people know? or would it be hidden so that people do not know?
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha . . . .
franz,
That’s the funniest comment anyone’s ever left on my blog! Thanks for the laugh! You’ve really made my day!
Whoo! I can barely breathe from laughing so hard! Before the 1800s there were cromagnans and cavemen? Before the 1800s? Wow!! Reading your comment about some people being more stupid that others . . . well . . . that’s just the height of irony!