Who says women mature faster than men?

At a work meeting this morning, one of my colleagues mentioned jokingly that men lag years behind women in terms of maturity. The remark passed without comment from the roomful of women. Outwardly, I was my usual calm and collected self but inside my head, this innocent bit of conventional wisdom had set off a storm. So I did what I always do when something sets off a storm in my head. I decided to blog about it.

First, I have to create a point of reference. I couldn’t find any scientific literature arguing that women mature faster than men but I was able to pull something off the Web that I think gets to the gist of the women-are-more-mature-than-men argument:

Women mature much faster than men. Most 17-year-old females can function as adults. Most 17-year-old males are still trading baseball cards and giving each other wedgies after gym class. This is why high school romances rarely work.”

My problem with this whole argument is that “maturity” is never defined in any way, let alone an acceptable one. The above quote doesn’t say what women do that makes them more mature at 17, besides “functioning as adults.” But again, we don’t know what adults do to demonstrate their maturity. I can only assume it’s “adult” stuff like having relationships, owning a home, raising a family, etc. But we’ll come to that later.

What we do know is that boys, through the things they do, show themselves to be less mature. Trading baseball cards or giving each other wedgies, for example. I can only extrapolate that 17-year-old women are more mature because they are presumably less interested in hobbies or horseplay. More importantly, as the last sentence insinuates, women are also interested in relationships. Ergo, they are more mature. Without going to great lengths or providing evidence, I’ll go out on a limb and say that the maturity argument hinges implicitly on matters pertaining to relationships. The “maturity” of boys and girls is directly proportional to their interest in getting into a relationship. 

First off, let’s try to find the point at which boys’ activities render them less mature than their girl peers?

Is a 10-year-old-boy who plays at cops and robbers less mature than a 10-year-old-girl who plays with dolls? Is a 15-year-old-boy who dreams of being a veterinarian, a pilot or teacher less mature than a girl his age who develops her first crush? Is a 19-year-old girl who’s in a relationship with a 23-year-old more mature than a 19-year-old boy who’s into X-Box? I say no, no, and no. Conventional wisdom might say no, yes, and yes.  So when do the maturity levels of the sexes diverge? They diverge right around puberty, the age at which women can become pregnant and boys can produce sperm. 

Girls become interested in boys while boys remain interested in toys. It is at this point, when interests diverge, that the maturity argument comes into play. You never hear the maturity argument prior to adolescence. Nobody says that a one-year-old girl is as mature as a five-year-old boy. You never hear that a 14-year-old boy has the same maturity level as an eight-year-old girl. But once puberty hits, you start hearing all about how girls are more mature than boys. The fact that girls enter puberty one to two years before boys only adds credibility to the argument.

However, there is never any talk about why some behaviors are more “mature” and others less. Instead, immature behavior almost always happens to be whatever boys are interested in doing. Interest in games and toys is deemed immature. Interest in hanging out with your friends is deemed immature. On the other hand, girls’ activities—developing crushes on boys, passing love notes to boys in class, and spending hours on the phone with friends talking about boys—are not deemed immature.

Why is this? Because activities that put women into the sexual and reproductive realm are rewarded, i.e., considered mature. In other words, “maturity” is conferred on girls when they become sexualized and capable of bearing offspring.  Why else is the age of “womanhood” so close to the age of puberty? Why not confer womanhood after completion of an advanced degree or after the purchase of a home? And why is the most significant day in a woman’s life the day she gets married? Because all these activities are tied directly to women’s sexuality and reproductivity, and anything they do that sets them on the path to wifehood and motherhood is applauded as “mature” behavior. Boys, on the other hand, enter manhood only after they graduate college, join the army or buy their first home.

So closely tied to relationships is the gender-maturity argument that it’s impossible to discuss gender and maturity without ultimately ending up at relationships! To be more precise, men’s and women’s attitudes at different ages regarding relationships. A woman who wants to  settle down with a husband and start a family is considered mature, even if she’s only in her early 20s. On the other hand, a man who prefers to put off marriage or even dating is considered immature. Which ties back to the logical conclusion of the women-are-more-mature-than-men argument, the notion that it is only natural for women to date older men. Consequently, nobody bats an eyelid if a 17-year-old girl has a boyfriend who’s already in college or if a 23-year-old woman marries a 46-year-old divorced man.

Ultimately, “maturity” has nothing to do with anything. Our patriarchal society arbitrarily deems some behaviors mature and others immature. Activities—like wearing makeup and having boyfriends—which move girls out of childhood and into womanhood are considered mature. Boys only acquire maturity through “adult” activities like home-ownership or military service, which usually come later in life when many of their female peers have already gone for older men. Is it any surprise then that the patriarchy places more value on behaviors that result in higher-placed members gaining access to younger women’s bodies?

Check out this post I found in the course of my “research.” It’s anecdotal (and possibly fictional) but it’s devilishly clever and well worth the read!!!

72 thoughts on “Who says women mature faster than men?

  1. So easy to write a few nauseating sentences about how someone else’s writing made you almost vomit. WordPress is free. Go write something that you do not find nauseating on your own blog or, at the very least, put half as much time and thought into your comments as I put into my posts.

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  2. Hahaha! Boys may seem more immature and all but most Boys like being themselves. Girls like to be followers. We rarely get any ambition or significant difference in girls whatsoever. This is also why we live in a male dominant world. Men like to be leaders. They like difference. Thats kind of why in asian countries boys are more valued. Men run most of this world. Women are way more conventional.

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  3. Maybe this was 40 years ago but in today’s society I hardly doubt it, girls age 17 these days are acting worst than what you say Immature boys are.
    Boys age 17 might enjoy talking about cars, sports, and stupid things that make their life full of joy while girl at that age are making videos of them shaking their ass and upload them to the internet, spreading rumors of others girls and dressing like little whores.(cheap ones)
    Why is it bad for a 17 year old to act like a kid? I see nothing wrong because they are still kids! I have seen older men and women making stupid decision, decisions a kid would make. Maturity is not affected by age.
    I’m currently 26 years old, I have done things most people will fear to do, I have accomplished things people do while in their 30’s or 40’s, I have traveled to places most people don’t even know they exist and I know things most people should not know and if I did tell I would have to pay maybe with my own life. At the age of 17 I joined the U.S military I was out by age 22, at the same time I was going to school to get my B.S, at age 23 I got my B.S from UCSD in San Diego,CA my home town. By age 23 & 24 I was making 150K per year later started my own small business in San Diego and bought property in Tijuana,Mexico my other hometown. Also I was traveling a lot while in the military and until today I still do. Now age 25 I make 225K per year and I’m in the point of buying a house in the USA maybe pay 400k for a house.
    I have done things many people won’t do(military)
    I have seen many places people don’t know about(military/life)
    I know things I can’t tell or I might end up dead(military)
    I have accomplished great things(LIFE)

    Mature is not determined by age nor how much things you own/have, even until today I act like a kid because I like it.!! I don’t act like if I was better than anyone else. I enjoy driving cars, playing video games, shooting with the military friends, traveling and getting to know people and learn more and more. I enjoy books, giving back to the people and specially being who I’m. If that makes me immature then I’m guilty of doing the things I enjoy in life:) :)

    I’m proud of being a 26(almost 27) year old, Mexican/Italian/American who served in the military and is making the money but more than everything enjoys being himself.!

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  4. Hi guys,
    Just wanted to let you know that when women say that men are immature, they’re usually talking about specific events that have occurred with their own men and it usually has to do with day to day decisions. Most often for me, it’s selfishness which I think stems from immaturity.
    e.g. Playing video games instead of helping your kid with their homework: immature.
    Spending large amounts of money on pimping your ride instead of paying the bills: immature.
    Inviting your friends over to party for the weekend when your wife has a big final on monday: immature.

    It’s the choices that men make even when they know its the wrong choice. I believe that has to do with your level of maturity. No one ever says don’t play video games or hang out with your friends or spend money, just plan life out, prioritize and be responsible. Life is meant to be fun for everyone, not just for you while your wife is left cleaning up the mess. Also, men rarely ever show their asses before you marry them. Single men out there, don’t make promises you don’t intend to keep.

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  5. I haven’t read any of the other comments in response to your writing. I appreciate the amount of effort and thought you puttowards a generally over looked statement. I always admire people who dig and search for truth, rather than just accept the surface of what’s “presented” as truth. I agree with your train of thought. I have a theory; because males & females are perceived and generally treated differently in society, this treatment affects their perspective maturity. When a girl is born, parents seem to generally treat her according to what they (and society) say a girl should be treated, i.e. teach her to cook, clean, give her dolls, shower her with the color pink. Boys are encouraged to engage in sports, or to be “macho”. But what do you think happens to a childs development and perception of society and other males & females if say; a girl doesn’t like pink or dolls & a boy doesn’t show interest in sports or trying to be “macho”? I think often times it hurts them in moreways than one. Patriarchal society is an interesting term I look forward to researching more about but, I get the gest of its meaning. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts openly and respectfully. Even if your wrong ( I personally think your on the right path) I applaud you for going against the grain of generally accepted knowledge for personally endeavoring to “search” for the truth yourself and use the wonderful brain we have as humans to reason by way of thought. Like eating food, infants get by with milk (basics knowledge) but, adults should take in more solid foods (deeper thought), otherwise you have a bunch of weak-mined adults teaching children weak minded ideals… Etc.

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  6. Apparently I am a few years late on this conversation but just last week my Sociology class had this same debate. The Professor challenged us to find proof that females do/dont mature faster than males and also define maturity. That is what led me to this interesting and insightful blog. I personally agree with all of your statements and pretty much made the same argument in my class. Another interesting tid bit that I found is that both sexes reach cognitive maturity around the age of 25. So as far as thinking capacity both sexes reach maturity at the same time. We all know that females physically mature faster than males…no contest there. But what I am trying to find out now is Emotional Maturity (ability to differentiate and properly identify one’s emotions while (b) granting yourself the freedom to experience whatever emotion is appropriate to a given situation.). So far I am having a hard time finding a definitive age bracket for Males and Females. Could this be because of Environmental and Social factors for individuals. For instance if a male lost one his parents at a young age and was forced to step up into their place in order for the family to survive thus making him more mature be the same as a Female hitting her fertility peak and realizing that she needs to settle down and have a family or live with the possibility of never having any “blood” Children.
    Either way your blog and so many of your readers have provided me a lot of information, insights, and other avenues to think about and bring up in my next class. Thank you so much.

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  7. hi there,i am a 13 year old male and i agree completely with your blog.many young girls are treated with a higher maturity level than their male counterparts but seeing that many women can be one sided in this argument,calling men sexist when this argument arises it can be extremely frustrating and also perplexing to know that due to our past when a woman had no rights in society.this problem really needs to be thought about and talked about to rid society of the common assumption that women are more mature than men of the same age.

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  8. While I do believe it’s true that women mature faster physically(obviously), I also think there really isn’t any basis in saying that they also mature faster mentally as well. I really cannot stand other females my age (16) because most of them are incredibly and painfully immature. To me, their immaturity comes from the things that others above me have stated are what society deems “mature” such as dating earlier, thinking about settling down and having children and obsessing over physical appearance and the opposite sex. I’m not saying I have never participated in any of those activities, but the way these issues weigh so heavily on their minds is a sign of deep immaturity to me. It’s unrealistic and a fantasy for most of us mortals. Men on the other hand are playing video games, watching porn, and talking about cars (I’m generalizing of course) which I really don’t see as any more immature than girls fantasizing about a big white wedding. The two genders are obviously different and not just in the physical aspect. They are interested in different things and this in itself is no grounds for arguing that women are more mature. Someone already said that it really comes down to the individual. I agree completely with this, because no person is of the same level of maturity or intelligence. I know many immature males, and I know plenty of immature females as well. It depends on life experiences, the way in which you were raised, one’s spiritually and ability to communicate effectively and a whole lot of other things as well.

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  9. As a student in high school, what I have noticed most of all with most (not all of course) boys is their lack of a filter. Whatever pops into their head is said, no matter the content or the relevance. I am often in the middle of a fairly intelligent conversation with a boy when he randomly blurts out some horrible joke (usually sexual or, even worse, bathroom humor…). Again I do know some guys who are not like this, they tend to be more introverted and studies- focused, though they are much harder to carry on a conversation with. More interested in AP Physics than girls, it seems.

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  10. the truth is they physicilly mature faster. hell there girls that are like 5 to 7 years old instrested in boy. esp the one they see on tv like pop artist. and dress up in clothes that make them look more mature.cause of teenage & young adult women in the media. but there not mentally as mature as they dress. hell go to a nkotbsb concert and there nothin but a ton of immature women in there 20s to 40s actin and droolin over the same pop artist that they did when there teen or preteen.or even if you use youtube. and there also women who enjoy kickin a guy in the nuts to see his reaction. or cause he pissed them off and think they have the right to do so. while a mature women would use it as a means of self defence. like if there being raped or beaten.there are men that are more mature than women. as there women that are more mature than men.

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  11. I have to say Abdul that this was exactly what I was hoping to find when I went on line to check out this question. Mostly I came across this because I was debating the issue of why women cheat as opposed to the reasons men do. My friend (female) and I get into this topic about twice a year. Usually after she’s made some generalized snide remark about men based on what her on again off again boyfriend is doing, or not doing. It was a pleasure to see a well thought out cogent and most importantly unbiased review of the topic. I hope this blog is taken seriously by both sexes when they read it and that everyone comes away with the same outlook. That this has conclusively proven that there is no conclusive proof about something as subjective as maturity in human beings. Really very well done article my friend and the comments clearly show that a lot of people are more open minded about reading an opposing opinion and learning from it. Keep up the good work.

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  12. Women matures faster but is easily influenced, and men are immature but are born leaders.
    If the women is raised correctly, then she will be what we call matured..
    Wuallahu’alam..

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  13. I’m a 17 year old girl. I like to play vidio games and joke around, Me and my girls are always joking around. I don’t know why people want to make us more mature than boys. Just because boys want to have fun, does not make them imature. Boys are different than girls. But as far as being imature, I think that is according to the experiences a person has had. Not gender related. Some boys can produce babies at 12 and 13 just like “some” girls can. Not all girls can have babies at 12 and 13. Boys are dating and calling girls on the phone just like girls are calling. There have been well known cases of 12 and 13 year old boys going with teachers. There have been well known cases of 12 and 13 year old boys producing babies with grown teachers. Some have been all over the news. So, how is the 12 amd 13 year old boys any different from the 12 and 13 year old girls, Do you think the 12 and 13 year old boys were talking about” teddy bears and trucks” on the phone with the teachers? Those boys were capable of talking about the same things the girls talk about. When I was in the seventh grade I was 13. Me and my 13 year old boyfriend would walk home everyday. He would tote my books. After we got to my door we would tongue kiss. We broke up later, because he chose to go with another girl that offered him sex. He was just as “fast” as us girls. People need to stop saying boys are immature than girls, because it is not true.

    thank you,
    It’s a new day

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  14. Just wanted to say I enjoyed your blog post and agree 100%! I met my wife when we were both 16 and we have just married this past year after 5 years together. Dare I speak honestly when I say I noticed major differences in my maturity as the years went on which peaked this past year between our wedding and our engagement.

    I believe personal maturity is more than just what activities you choose to participate in or what gender/age you are. I believe the most mature people in the world are the ones that recognize (and acknowledge) the immaturity they still have and choose to rise to the occasion to better themselves for the benefit of others.

    I believe maturity is a choice that one must make. One may argue that a 13 yearold boy is less mature than a 13 yearold girl, but when that same 13 yearold boy drops out of highschool of his own free will to work to help support his struggling family I say your wrong. The true test for a man is his love for his family and the sacrifices he is willing to make to protect it.

    P.S the statement about the 13 yearold boy is a real story. My wife’s Dad is that same boy and even though he never finished college he is one of the most intelligent men I know and I highly respect him.

    Thank you for reading!

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  15. I think ur right get thins late than women that why men considered immature.I have girl that we’re in same age.But she feels i am more matured than her and makes he to have anger.Because she claim that she falled in love with a guy of 21yrs she see as chalŏetext (5524)

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  16. I am a mature male, I know this because I am 50 yrs old and can look back and ponder my “immature” self.
    I agree with the notion that society sets the stage for our ideas regarding the maturity/immaturity of male and females. That being said I would like to share my opinion on the subject, which I have given much thought to and which is based largely on my experience.
    I have been in three long term relationships with women, the shortest term being seven years. I have always tried to understand what exactly women want from me. This is where the dilemma begins, and why I feel that men get the short end of the maturity stick.
    First of all I will say that NOT all women will exhibit this behavior, where they at times seem incapable of saying what they mean and meaning what they say.
    My considerable experience with women has been that the tendency of women to contradict themselves often and unashamedly lends them to the immaturity column. I cannot count the many, many times that my lady and I would agree on something; only to find, usually at an inopportune moment, that she has somehow decided on the exact opposite. Not only that, if I were to comment on the fact that she had previously indicated otherwise, she would become angry.
    So I am saying that the childish behaviors such as; crying when they are losing an argument, disliking other women for no apparent reason (maybe because of what they are wearing), or simply not saying what’s wrong when there is obviously something wrong all seem very immature to me.
    Let me say that I absolutely adore women, and quite honestly wouldn’t want to change anything, but when people say that men are more immature than women I have to say my experience has been the exact opposite.
    My male friends rarely contradict themselves, do not cry when losing an argument, and I can say that never once has a male friend spoken badly about an unknown male who just entered the room simply because of what he was wearing. Also I do not spend hours on the phone with my male friends talking about other people, who said what to who, or talking through the same thing over and over again without resolution, which are all decidedly immature behaviors in my opinion.
    Again, I love women.

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  17. Hey i am a 12 year old boy and i came searching for answers because girls in my class kept saying that girls are more mature than boys and that arguing about it was immature. So after school during basketball practice i kept on thinking about it. Then i decided to do a search and read all these posts because i like arguing over topics because it gets ideas and thoughts out. What i don’t understand is why they call call me immature when they sit on each others laps, giggle, and scream in the most annoying way possible and think that that is not immature. And in conclusion this blog has help me out a lot so thank you.

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  18. First of all,I would like to thank you very much Abdul for sharing your oppinion on this delicate matter with the world.I agree with you completely,and recently i was in an unpleasnt situation which resulted in me being called immature.Let me explain:I am going to english classes,and this year my group has been changed.I am the only boy,and there are three more girls(4 if you count the teacher).I had thought that this wouldnt be important,but sadly,i was wrong.The girls im in the class with match the stereotypes that you mention above,always talking on various subjects regarding boys looks,movies,music,but never about future aspirations,interests,science,politics.As a matter of fact wastly more boys that i know talk about these subjects than girls.If these things are labeled as mature,is having no oppinion on these things immaturity?And what worries me the most is the fact that gossiping and so on is not labeled as immature!Fascinating,isnt t.So,to continiue the story:at one point of the class,we started discussing the differences
    between men and women.I was entirely satisflied with the discussion until someone mentioned that girls develop mentally faster than boys.My blood started boiling,but it managed to calm down and try to explain that girls arent more mature,and the only answer to all that
    i had said was ”its a scientific fact that girls develop faster,end of story” .After hearing this,
    i simply gave up.The conventional wisdom had poisoned their minds up to the point with no turning back.To add up to my dissappointment,even the (female) teacher supported that ridiculous argument.All in all im really glad to know that there are people out there with normal ways of reasoning,thanks once again:)

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  19. I recently came across this blog and became interested in it as read through various comments. It may be scientifically true that girls mature faster than boys sexually, when it comes to maturity on the basis of mind and emotion I completely disagree that they mature faster, as a matter of fact, I’ve found that women in many instances tend to repeat mistakes well into their 30’s that a rational human being would have adapted to early on; but, that isn’t to say that this applies to all women. Not everyone develops the same and outside influences can factor into this heavily. Example if someone is forced to handle responsibilities at an early age, they will have no choice but to “mature” more rapidly.

    And on a final note, I whole heartily believe that it is not our behavior that defines our level of maturity [examples of trivial behavior: video gaming, giving wedgies, hanging out in a bathroom spreading gossip, telling jokes at a funeral, going to the midnight showing of Twilight] it is the life altering decisions that we make that determine our mental status. lol That last example reminded me of this article I read, about married women leaving their husbands to follow Robert Pattinson around the country; a fine example of a lack of maturity in adult women. So, I think we can safely say that this popularly misinterpreted topic shouldn’t be used to as ammunition for the feminazi movement.

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  20. Pingback: Knights and Dames » Blog Archive » Maturity

  21. I totally agree with Abbey. However, I am 11 and got in a maturity debate with a 13 year old. At my school they had a video about changes in the human body. The mothers were welcome to come in and watch either sexes video. The fathers, however, were only allowed to come to the male video. My 13 year old friend, who is a girl, said that it’s because woman are more mature than men. Just because we play video games and watch anime at age 15 doesn’t nessescerily mean that women are more mature. Mature is an opinion. Girls often are more immature at younger ages than men are! While 15 year old men watch anime and play Left 4 Dead 2, women at the same time are still giggling in class and, yes, passing notes.

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  22. Hello all.

    I’m 27 and about to engage in a relationship with a woman who is 19. Hence what brought me to this site. The question at hand for myself was: how will I appeal to her family as good man, rather than a guy who is simply “too old.” This standard or concept is held by the mass society and simply socially accepted.

    Growing up and looking back on myself I noticed both mature actions in my life and needless to say not so mature actions. This was at any age. I assess maturity by this definition: Was the action in good faith either logical or with good intent? In short, did it make sense?

    I would say and agree with scientists as yes women do mature faster than men, however on average only. Its the way the brain develops. Though keep in mind, I’m certain if you look, it will not say anything about the home they grew up in, life expierences at different ages, and friends and clicks they choose. There are, in my opinion, too many variables to consider.

    So to finish up I would like to send two thoughts out to the world: 1. I belive that women, on average only, mature faster than men but anyone reguardless of where they are in life can choose to act imature. 2. I’m going to date this woman becuase she stands out as more mature than many women I know at 26. I only hope that I can appeal as a mature adult to her parents because of the fact I’m 27. My life expierences have made me the man I am today, without them I wouldn’t even concider myself to be mature enough to date thier daughter. Honesty, respect, selflessness… this comes from life expierences first and foremost. But that’s my thought on it.

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  23. When I was a child I thought as a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child. But now I am a man and I have put away childish things. 1 Corinthians 13:11.

    Good blog post by the way. Very interesting!

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  24. furthermore,

    asking a question like ‘ If women are more mature how come men dominated over society for so long ”

    Domination – I will say again has nothing* to do with maturity or intelligence, but has to do with egocentrism and the egomaniacal drive to dominate. Domination has nothing to do with what is just, good for society, or the advancement of society but what is good for the person dominating. Therefore it is not a ‘mature’ way of running or conducting a society as it is only best for the ones dominating while limiting advancement of the overall group and as human beings. Children are egocentric they must taught to not be so egocentric and realize they live in a society. Egocentrism is associated with immaturity- because it is an immature way of viewing the world- as it is really not* viewing the world, but viewing oneself in relation to the world. As children focus on. That is why men are seen as being less mature because the focus ( as proven here ) Is devoted to oneself, ones own wants, and ego. While a women is biologically more prone to do what is best for others outside herself, to do what is best for her family, community, and the world at large. Her drive to succeed in life is not egocentric, but based on the drive to advance her family, the community, and thus society itself. Even if she does not realize she is doing so- she is still sacrificing more so her family succeeds and thus allowing more people in society to succeed and advance.

    A Bangladeshi economist Muhammad Yunus started a micro-lending program in Bangladesh. He focused the lending practices on the poor. Specifically, he focused lending to Bangladeshi women. Why? His philosophy is as follows:
    “They pay more attention, prepare their children to lead better lives, and are more consistent in their performance than men. When a destitute mother starts earning an income, her dreams of success invariably center around her children…When a destitute father earns extra income, he focuses more attention on himself. Thus money entering a household through a woman brings more benefits to the family as a whole.”

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  25. **

    ” men are superior biologically”

    Only in terms of body/strength, biology involves all biology including brain so it’s important to make this clear. Also mens testosterone causes them to be more aggressive thus resulting in ‘dominance’.

    Women are considered more ‘mature’ not because of behaviour but because the Corpus Callosums have 10 to 33 percent more neuronal fibers than men’s, allowing women better interaction between the two lobes of the brain, and thus a greater ability both to express and interpret emotion, communicate, and to multi-task.

    “society was always based on the need for strength to survive.”

    Neolithic women have been the ones accredited for having invented agriculture, because they were traditionally in charge of gathering while men did the hunting. Thus the ability for a community to feed itself continuously, stay in one place, ecouraged the progression of society. If you look at third world countries today most women not only take care of the children but are the ones who are in the fields gathering food, gathering water, sewing clothes, and basically doing everything else for their community while the men are usually in some type of military unit ( making generalizations here of most impoverished countries and delayed cultural development)

    The answer to why men have always dominated over women?
    Testosterone.
    Also physically able to dominate a women whenever he pleases and only doing what’s in the best interest of himself, while women are maintaing the community at whole. (science :child rearing- agression studies.. too much to go into)
    Men are more ego-centric as they have not had centuries or have the biology to rear or care for children. Women tend to not naturally feel a need to assert themselves or dominate, as their focus is not primarily on personal gain and do not tend toward aggression. Which is what dominating another race, culture, sex is about… It is about a ‘need’ to dominante, to make others subservient to oneself. It has nothing to do with maturity or intellect, but hormones and biology.

    Men as proven here, cannot more readily think past your own gender, past your own personal needs. Has anyone researched women’s studies when saying they feel discriminated against? You do not face real discrimination but ‘perceived discrimination’. Men are not severely limited to opportunities in life while women still are regardless of superficial changes ( explained later ) Perhaps, research it yourself- and not souly from a mans* perspective which has been the case for centuries.
    The mere thought that women may mature faster you said “set off a storm” in you. Rather than calmly questioning you were driven by upset emotions, related to your ego , related to aggression. Given biology it explains the multitude of men in favor here, and still only focusing on their own personal/gender rights- yet not bothering to dig deeper on the women’s perspective or current social standing.

    It is not your place to comment on how women choose to empower themselves today- given the fact of how men treated women so crudely in the past and continue today. Yes, of course you may not like it at the time and in some areas you may be superficially discriminated. BUT as a whole- given centuries of traditions/instituions it is still no near being equal for women. If you think it is equal as a man, well that just proves you have no concept of the female experience, perhaps read some gender equality material, instead of just assuming that b/c you feel ‘slightly’ discriminated against must mean that there’s now inequality towards men in a significant*way to qualify these claims. In reality, women today are still not nearly equal given the laws, institutions, history, society has been shaped by a men through centuries and a women must conform- or still face criticism. These superficial ‘benefits’ have not been around long enough to inspire any change in the true nature things are done or perceived. As is proven by women starting at the same pay as men, but then men being more easily promoted because the company is run and has a history of being run by men. The ‘boys club’ commonly referred to in business where the men higher up want another buddy to go to the golf course with.
    Women statistically do many more hours of house work and child care than men- on top of full time work. Women get payed 79 cents less statistically. This is commonly quoted as fair b/c women take more off time for work to have and then take care of children. While it is true for the first year the child is born, it in no way statistically equates to that much less spanning a lifetime. Women – given that they are the primary care takers after the first year, must take away from their sick/ vacation time to take care of a child in need or for reasons relating to the family. So while men get payed more and have more personal sick/vacation days.. women get payed less and have to scarifies their personal days for the success of the family. Raising a child is the hardest job in the world- yet women in todays society also pursue work and take care of house activities, and then raise children. That does not seem quite fair to me, much less than perhaps a spot in a golf club.

    Men should be more aware of how testosterone affects their brain and thought pattern and look ABOVE it, not just get upset by the mere possibility or anger at the way women choose to empower themselves. How about think about a women’s perspective? After all women have been forced into yours for centuries… Instead of just focusing on your own needs and wants, which have been imposed on society for again yes i will say it- centuries.

    I challenge all the men here to truly take up some research on statistics on violence against women, women in the workplace, women’s pay/ advancement, and the perspective of how women must where all hats – both work and family and how they encounter/experience a world still dominated by men and a culture of encouraging young women to become sexual objects/symbols, rather than women in government and business positions.

    Does know one here see how men can look up to government and past government and see inspiration from a multitude of powerful men. Yet women see far fewer government positions and no past history of women in government to look up to. Yet they do see the new photos of Kim K. on a magazine cover. Has anyone wondered how that shapes the future young women- who are apparently discriminating against men yet being raised in a culture which places them in true* inferiority.

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  26. I would like to comment on this as I am a man who loves older women. The thing thats interesting is when someone hears about a man that is interested in an older woman two things are assumed. The woman is immature, or the man wants a mother figure. There is either something wrong with the man or wrong with the woman.

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  27. Yes, I too find this blog to be rather interesting and enlightening from reading your comments. I have once saw the widely accepted belief of women maturing faster than men to be just that…a belief. However, I soon began to accept it as true, but not because I’ve taken a more in-depth look into the matter, but because that is what is driven into the hearts and minds of society. I then began to wonder why it is true. Taking a look at it from a spiritual perspective, I wondered why God designed it where a woman matures faster than a man, or why a woman up to a certain point in her young life has maintained a maturity lead over a man. After reading this blog, I took a step back, considering the many points-of-view that I read, and began to revise my question. I’m a thinker so my thoughts are complex, yet it didn’t occur to me to take a 25 year old mature look into how society has come to accept this ideology as fact.

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  28. I agree completely with your Blog. The reason I sought out a blog like this is because my current girl who will leave for college soon is not interested in starting a relationship. due mainly on the fact that she will mature much faster than me since I am male, and not on the bond we have with each other.

    Great Blog Abdul, it made me feel much better.

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  29. I agree with Mr. Adbul but however I belive that our capabilites to take dicision & resposiblity makes a person matured(either boy or girl)

    But mostly women have a narrow sense of maturity & they belive having gossips,crushs,affairs,physical experices are the sign of maturity.

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  30. This is the first time that I have ever really checked out a blog before.

    I must say I am very impressed to say the least!

    I think the whole concept is of maturity is a result of our culture dictating to us how we should live our lives.. (mortgage, car payments, and secure jobs)

    Coming from a musicians point of view I find that none of these qualities ever unfold in the lifestyle and makes for a difficult dating life. Does this make me immature? Or does it demonstrate that I know what I want from life, i’m my own person, strong willed, willing to go against the unknown, and have a fiery passion?

    Does my dreams, hopes and aspirations, of making a living doing something I love make me immature with a boy-hoodish dream make me less mature than someone willing to settle for a 9-5 job and have the paper shredded at the end of the year??

    I often wonder if maturity is really just who is willing to give in and become a consumer. In this society there is a great emphasis on being a great provider for a man and when that isn’t met loneliness isn’t far behind.

    However; In a womens defence they have the right to choose a partner who has money and will be able to provide a nice life as a counterpart having the “white picket fence” isn’t all that bad!

    Wanting to be loved and be loved unconditionally is everyones goal!

    Hope you take this well!!

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  31. I’m a 15 year old girl and i am NOT any more mature than a 15 year old boy… i love joking around playing pranks and things like that, apparently its because i was brought up in an enviroment with lots of boys…thats what my mum says anyway. thats got nothing to do with it!
    i admitt im immature…and to be honest…i’m proud! x

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  32. i agree with the other chris, how is it mature if its always a lose lose situation when girls or women call us immature it makes them look mature but if we try to argue the fact that we arent immature its an immature thing to do… also one of my thoughts is girls (not yet women) wearing tons of make-up and revealing clothes is an immature thing to do in my opinion, which is why im glad that my girlfriend does it on the right occasion which shows me she has respect for herself and isn’t desperate for attention and i love her for that because im a senior in high school and now when i look back on freshman and even middle school girls they are all wearing make up mini skirts small shirts even when its freezing cold there are girls wearing skirts that are my age and some even older i dont think theres anything cute about that,, i dont know though im just talking let me know what you guys think

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  33. Dear Abdul Kargbo,

    First of all, I would like to thank you for writing this article. This particular topic has been eating away at me for years and I am simply delighted to finally see it intellectually analysed.

    Although one could certainly write a relatively extensive essay on this topic, I will refrain from doing so and simply share a story from the 10th grade that has kept on my spine since the day that it occurred.

    Every lunch time my friends and I would head off to play with our trading cards somewhere quiet and out of the way. One such lunchtime we were all sitting down, talking about our card collections, swapping cards, and in general, minding our own business. All of a sudden a small group of girls from our grade walked in and noticed what we were doing…not one of us boys said a word; we continued to do what we normally do…however, one of the girls stood over where we were sitting down and started yelling at us.
    I recall her saying “Why the hell do you play with those stupid cards, it’s so true what they say…girls are more mature than boys.”
    After saying the above, she continued talking a little longer, I can’t remember exactly what else she said but there was definitely a lot of swearing.

    The strange thing is, and the the thing that bugs me till this day is the fact that she didn’t say it sarcastically, or as a joke…she seemed straight out furious at us despite the fact we had no idea what we did wrong…

    The other boys shrugged it off, but it ate me away…is it more mature to mind your own business and attend to your hobbies (regardless of how “childish” they are) OR is it more mature to blatently voice your opinion without any justifiable reason, even if there is a great risk of offending whoever hears it?

    My apologizes for the subjection of my comment; however this is the first chance I have had to vent it with other people who share the same frustration.

    Thank you,
    Kaine

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  34. I can agree that for argument’s sake, women do “mature” faster, but it seems that the gap closes in the 20’s and that “maturity” atrophies in women and grows in men as they age.

    There is a terrific book for men to read about archetypes and it actually celebrates masculinity instead of criticizing.
    King, Warrior, Magician, Lover: Rediscovering the Archetypes of the Mature Masculine.

    In this book they state ” There has been a veritable blitzkrieg on the male gender. What amounts to an outright demonization of men, and a slander against masculinity”

    Also “…it is clear that the world is overpopulated with not only immature men but also tyrannical and abusive little girls pretending to be women”

    It is indeed time for western men to stop accepting blame for everything that is wrong in the world.

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  35. sorry i needed to clear something up about my above comment. Why is it that women that do believe in this always seem to think there more mature then men if there both thirty? I mean if it is true that women are more mature then most guy there age at 17 its just a temporary mental gap that would smooth out at around 20 or so right? i left out a sentence lol

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  36. Oh nvm lol. I didn’t know it had to be approved. Its my first time using a blog but anyway like i said last night great blog. Oh yeah something i forgot to put last night. Why is it that women that do believe in this always seem to think there more mature then men if there both thirty? I mean if it is true its just a temporary gap that would smooth out at around 20 or so right? but i still think that maturity is based on individuals lol. c the reason i am asking is because the women i am posting this blog is because my gf’s parents are both really immature and sexist. @#$%^ (her mother) said that @#$%^& (my gf) is more mature then me because i was climbing a tree. but whats the point of life if you wont enjoy it i mean if u can live close to a hundred why do you have to stop having fun at 17? further more after her remark she said that @#$%^& is also more mature then her brother because all he does when he is home is play games and hang out with his friends. He is 22 and in the military he is going t Afghanistan so y wouldn’t he want to take that off his mind right? @#$%^ called me immature for arguing about it but i was just asking questions she was the one fussing. after that we got in a sexist fight about men. she claims men are sexist (in general) and i am the least sexist person i know. she said i am sexist because i would be ashamed of what ppl would think of me if i let Kaycee cool seal a roof or something like that but i wouldn’t be. i would be worried yes but who wouldn’t i mean if that’s what you consider sexist then so be it . if your husband is in to steel work a lot of women i know try to get them to quit its to risky but the pay is great so he does it for his family (in cases like this why cant one be worried). so be it steel work cool sealing a roof or even driving alone do you not say be careful? i don’t think its sexist to worry about your loved ones. sorry for getting off topic but that’s just really been bugging me. whole reason @#$%^ was saying men are sexist is because there immature. an who thanks for letting me get that off my chest.:)

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    • hampton,

      Thanks for reading my blog and leaving a thoughtful comment. I’m sorry you and your girlfriend (and her mom) have been arguing. Based on what you said, you don’t sound sexist at all. I agree with you. It’s perfectly normal for someone to be worried about their girlfriend working on a roof (because it’s dangerous), just like a woman might be worried about her husband working in a steel mill or doing some other dangerous job.

      But the truth is we are all raised with many different attitudes and beliefs, and the challenge is to figure out which are good (compassion, respect, etc.) and which are bad (sexism, racism, etc.), and try to develop the good ones and drop the bad ones.

      Seems to me you’re on the right track. Keep on thinking the way you do and don’t be afraid to challenge conventional wisdom.

      Like

  37. I think that everyone is equal as a whole but if you want to go by individuals like i said before it has to do with how you are raised. For instance for one to be mature they have to be mentally strong(standing by there word etc.), patient, forgiving and truthful or at least that’s what i think. i don’t think that this debate has any solid ground on the subject. physically yes women mature much faster mentally no its based on individuals. Oh yeah i am 17 and great blog Abdul:)

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  38. Of course women don’t mature faster than men. Dang, I’m getting ticked off at all of the feminine-superiority women who think being superior to men is fair! Equality doesn’t always mean communism!

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  39. I think men are mature in some way but lack the care & consideration of thought most women have in some situations w/out thought. Sometimes you have 2 explain why these things are important & women don’t feel like it should have 2 be explained it should be understood. I was told you never really know a person until you live with them well if a guy doesn’t clean and a women doesn’t cook is that immature if that’s what the other wants them to do? I think mature is defined by each individual in a situation but if it is a logical or knowledge that is the issue is it safe to say that girls are smart NO! I think 2 each its own & a lot of great talks & lessons come from that. But when is it safe to say its not maturity its common knowledge to know some of what goes on from day to day?

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  40. First off I would like 2 say thanks for starting this blog & for all the comments. I began a search for the question “are women more mature than guys” because I had 2 know is it a proven fact & if so why is it true? As so many people have pointed out on this blog it goes both ways. I am a 28yr old married woman (my husband is 28 as well) but sometimes I wonder what goes thru his head & it DRIVES ME CRAZY 2 wonder!!! I think maybe its his up bringing, the fact that his mom is southern and was brought up old fashion or maybe because he’s the baby of his family. He is the type who can be inconsiderate of a situation ex. we are on the road 20mins from home I have to be at work in 45mins but I need 2 change & then drive 15mins & he has to take someone home who is 20mins out and 10mins from home he’ll take the person home & have me to go to work late even though my job carries the health insurance & these days people are getting cut left & right. I work the graveyard shift and he’ll complain that he doesn’t spend time with me, fears for my safety, & wish I didn’t work over night but does nothing to help or change the situation. I took on the night shift because we have 2 young children & could not really afford daycare so I could have the kids & work at night (I thought that was teamwork not living a bread winner stereotype). But it seems like most times he is more concerned with hanging out, computers, games, & whatever at home biz is best 2 get rich quick. He will say hey I heard of this biz, I’ll say why not try this he won’t & try his it doesn’t work & then he comes back with oh I am trying this one now like it was his idea the whole time. These biz cost everytime you try 1 & I want to be supportive but I find things he does immature & lost in a sense. Not because he does it I feel he puts no thought behide it & it seems like he has that old met way of thought women kids and clean & men takes care of what they can. I have more but my phone won’t hold it.

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  41. As a 14 year old guy, I’ve had to put up with the maturity arguement for a long time. And I completely agree with Abdul on the definition of maturity.

    Recalling Emily Dickinson’s poem, Much Madness is Divinest Sense, society has been structured to interpret things that, when viewed farther away, seem ridiculous. Just how girls biologically develop earlier, as Nature intended so as to have the most oppurtunities to make offspring and et cetera, relates to how mentally and emotionally developed, I cannot fathom. In my research and experience, everybody has peaks in their development. Just as there are early bloomers and late bloomers in one aspect and another, girls are generally early bloomers in some aspects considered mature, such as social interactions. That’s how Nature intended it. By viewing evolution, we see how girls who are mothers at an earlier age are usually the fittest, therefore traits such as mental maturity are usually kept in the gene pool. These traits that makes a mother a good mother include finding as many partners as possible and basically producing as much as possible.

    While as complex humans we are not as direct as this, certain synonymous aspects can be seen. Girls who begin dating at a young age and finding “experienced” partners, i.e. older guys, are viewed upon as mature. Girls who begin caring about their social life are viewed as mature. In essence, girls who become capable mothers are viewed as mature. But does this define maturity?

    Just when has a female definition of maturity apply to males? Just as expectations of females differ from those of males, the standards for maturity deviate as well. Males in the animal world are made to be strong. Take an alpha male as an example. Alpha males are practical. They are strong and straightforward. If a male in a group fails to keep up, the alpha male deserts him for the betterment of the group. As Nature intended, males develop faster than females in different departments. Males are more practical. Just as research shows that while baby girls can differentiate facial expressions, baby boys can generally make a bridge out of blocks faster than girls. We develop in different areas, and thus what appears to be mature for guys may or may not seem mature for females.

    Maturity differs among males and females. But what has caused society to believe that females dictate what is mature and what is not? Take for example 2 guys who were dumped by their girlfriends. One cries and one moves on. Girls percieve the crying guy to be more into the relationship and thus believe him to be more mature than the other, who knows nothing can be done and moves on. In a guy’s perspective, the one who moves on is more mature. But in a girl’s perspective, the guy who cries is more mature. As a whole, the crying one is more mature. Why? What has made society side with the females’ perspective? Naturally, we would think the crying guy is more mature based on his dedication. As a guy, I would differ, but as a whole, that’s a different story.

    Bear with me this long text that may or may not make any sense. But basically, girls and guys mature in different aspects, just as how guys who play video games are viewed as mature by other guys but immature by girls. But years pass and older guys think video games are immature, at least in some cases like in my school. What made them change their mind? In my opinion, biology has. As females have the ability to reproduce, they are, in some areas, dominant over males. In many full-blown relationships, not casual ones that last a few months, it’s the guy after the girl. And thus what the girl deems as mature must be what the guy also views as mature. That’s just how nature works.

    In short, maturity differs among genders. It’s all about perspective. People may view intelligence or social adeptness as mature. It’s all different, and it all boils down to whether your partner finds you mature or not. A common ground in maturity is what binds a relationship together.

    That was long. I’ve got to thank my psychology class and AP Biology class, heh.

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    • Derek,

      Your psychology and biology teachers would be very proud of you if they read this post.:-)

      Thank your very much for your comment and insight. I hope you continue to contribute your thoughts to my blog.

      And, for the record, I agree with you 100%!

      Like

  42. Abbey,

    Wow!!! You may well be the most intelligent and articulate—and dare I say mature—thirteen-year-old I’ve ever come across.

    Thank you very much for your intelligent and well thought-out comment.

    I am very happy to have your input in this conversation.

    Your observations about maturity and what it means to be mature or immature are, in my opinion, spot on.

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  43. I think when these studies on men vs women maturity are put out, they’re speaking generally. And when they say “generally, women are thought to be more mature then men” I think that is exactly what they mean. And I don’t think it has anything to do with relationships. I don’t personally see, either, how talking on the phone for hours on end about guys, etc. is mature, because not every teenage girl is like that. And I agree with how maturity is more determined by how that person grew up, and their own experiences, rather than gender. I’m a 13 year old girl, and I’d like to think I’m more mature than most people my age, not because of my gender. I believe that is because I’m the youngest of four siblings, and include my step-siblings, the youngest of ten. I’ve had to grow up quicker, just to keep up with political or religious conversations with my family. I know I’m still young, but I think I’ve developed my own definition of maturity.

    Maturity is when you have your own opinions, but you don’t lash out in hatred because somebody else’s opinions are different (we’ve all done that before, I have). Maturity is when you hold respect for the people around you, and you’re tolerant of their views. Maturity is also taking personal responsibility for your wrong doings, and accepting those consequences. I lack the latter, simply because I hate getting in trouble, and yes, I believe that at that moment of denying I did something “wrong”, I was being immature.

    To me, it has absolutely nothing to do with relationships in that stereotypical way that girls, or guys, my age are viewed as. We can all be immature, and we can all be mature, at times.

    And that is to also say that just because I like having a good appearance doesn’t make me an immature person for caring for things like that. And just because I’m more intelligent than most people my age (in the AP classes at school) doesn’t make me mature. And believe me, I can not care about looks at times. I’m also one of the slowest people you’ll meet on certain days. That’s just how I am. Everybody’s different.

    And about defying stereotypes, I love video games. (Halo anyone?) Having fun by playing games isn’t immature. Why should enjoying yourself be considered immature, anyways? That’s just lame.

    Anyways, thanks for the blog:) I’m glad I came upon it on of my many random Google searches.

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  44. Steve there is only one thing I disagree with in your statement:

    “the answer is really rather obvious, men are biologically superior. As in men are stronger,”

    This is true in most cases, though I would think it would depend, throughout the the man’s lifespan, how he treats his body.

    If a woman does stuff to add muscle, ect… to her body, maybe she was a professional body-builder, naturally a man who knows nothing in that criteria probably would not be as strong as her.

    I loved reading your blog, Abdul Kargbo!

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  45. Steve,

    Thanks for your comment.

    I have only one point of contention:

    . . . ultimately, i see feminists as being somewhat detrimental to their cause because they are just promoting this division between the genders”

    Without feminists, women would not have any of the opportunities they have today. Feminism is what brought about all the benefits and, although there’s still a long way to go, we can’t say Feminism has outlived its usefulness. And we definitely shouldn’t say Feminists are detrimental to the cause of women’s empowerment.

    Gender relations, like all human relations, are power relations. All Feminism seeks to do is interrogate and equalize the power imbalances that have traditionally typified gender relations.

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  46. In response to the post by Queta, you ask how woman were ever discrimanted against in the first place…the answer is really rather obvious, men are biologically superior. As in men are stronger, if you look back to society of the past – right back to cave men – society was always based on the need for strength to survive.
    And this is still evident today. While most western nations are largely ‘Tertiary’ based economies, that is to say services based – the marjority of the worlds population are all situated Primary and Secondary sector economies. And it is in these countries that physical strength will be valued above most else.
    And really, it is when an economy becomes an advanced industrial economy that education is valued over strength. And then equal opportunity can be made possible. This is rather generalised ofcourse, but if you look to a developing country like china, there is a massive secondary sector of the economy, and ofcourse – when producing goods, the ability to make goods faster and longer will be a trait that is looked positively upon.
    If you however look to a western nation, the ability to say – be a teller at a bank or work as an architect, is really based on intelligence which is can thus provide equal opportunities for both men and woman.

    When you also spoke of ‘Mens Rights Activists’, i can see where they are coming from. In the quest for equal treatment, great lengths of affirmitive action have been taken, and this then creates a situation of positive discrimination, where woman are discriminated in a good way. An obvious example might be university sporting scholarships, or golf club memberships – where such places are recquired to offer equal numbers of scholarships/memberships to both mem and woman, even though men may excel at the sport more thoroughly. This is entirely fair, as if such a system werent in place – these institutions would surely just discriminate and offer positions only to males because they offer a higher level of competition or whatever. (however with a golf club, they may actually offer memberships to woman for a lower price, but that has to do with the fact that woman will generally use the facilities less and therefore the club benefits from such memberships) anyway, this is getting a bit of track.
    But yes, with this quest for equal opportunity and with all these institutions taking affirmative action for woman, that surely means men are be discrimanted against – and so it arguable whether this is really ‘fair’. Instead, such places might instead put in place real equal opportunity, rather then pro-discrimination.

    Keeping with this, the train of thought that brought about affirmative action – also creates this sense men are automatically discriminating against woman, thus when you undertake a debate like this – you are automatically sexist sort of thing, and it really is a lose-lose situation. So what i see, is that for society to really become equitable, there needs to be this removal of gender divisions – and ultimately, i see feminists as being somewhat detrimental to their cause because they are just promoting this division between the genders. It is true that suffragete movements were beneficial, but nowadays – with the laws already fully promoting anti-discrimination, the more people argue for pro-discrimination of one sex, the more this gender division will grow and society will be unable to overcome the current situation of gender bias.

    If that makes sense and you can follow that, then good on you!

    cheers

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    • ” men are superior biologically”

      Only in terms of body/strength, biology involves all biology including brain so it’s important to make this clear. Also mens testosterone causes them to be more aggressive thus resulting in ‘dominance’.

      Women are considered more ‘mature’ not because of behaviour but because the Corpus Callosums have 10 to 33 percent more neuronal fibers than men’s, allowing women better interaction between the two lobes of the brain, and thus a greater ability both to express and interpret emotion, communicate, and to multi-task.

      “society was always based on the need for strength to survive.”

      Neolithic women have been the ones accredited for having invented agriculture, because they were traditionally in charge of gathering while men did the hunting. Thus the ability for a community to feed itself continuously, stay in one place, ecouraged the progression of society. If you look at third world countries today most women not only take care of the children but are the ones who are in the fields gathering food, gathering water, sewing clothes, and basically doing everything else for their community while the men are usually in some type of military unit ( making generalizations here of most impoverished countries and delayed cultural development)

      The answer to why men have always dominated over women?
      Testosterone.
      Also physically able to dominate a women whenever he pleases and only doing what’s in the best interest of himself, while women are maintaing the community at whole. (science :child rearing- agression studies.. too much to go into)
      Men are more ego-centric as they have not had centuries or have the biology to rear or care for children. Women tend to not naturally feel a need to assert themselves or dominate, as their focus is not primarily on personal gain and do not tend toward aggression. Which is what dominating another race, culture, sex is about… It is about a ‘need’ to dominante, to make others subservient to oneself. It has nothing to do with maturity or intellect, but hormones and biology.

      Men as proven here, cannot more readily think past your own gender, past your own personal needs. Has anyone researched women’s studies when saying they feel discriminated against? You do not face real discrimination but ‘perceived discrimination’. Men are not severely limited to opportunities in life while women still are regardless of superficial changes ( explained later ) Perhaps, research it yourself- and not souly from a mans* perspective which has been the case for centuries.
      The mere thought that women may mature faster you said “set off a storm” in you. Rather than calmly questioning you were driven by upset emotions, related to your ego , related to aggression. Given biology it explains the multitude of men in favor here, and still only focusing on their own personal/gender rights- yet not bothering to dig deeper on the women’s perspective or current social standing.

      It is not your place to comment on how women choose to empower themselves today- given the fact of how men treated women so crudely in the past and continue today. Yes, of course you may not like it at the time and in some areas you may be superficially discriminated. BUT as a whole- given centuries of traditions/instituions it is still no near being equal for women. If you think it is equal as a man, well that just proves you have no concept of the female experience, perhaps read some gender equality material, instead of just assuming that b/c you feel ‘slightly’ discriminated against must mean that there’s now inequality towards men in a significant*way to qualify these claims. In reality, women today are still not nearly equal given the laws, institutions, history, society has been shaped by a men through centuries and a women must conform- or still face criticism. These superficial ‘benefits’ have not been around long enough to inspire any change in the true nature things are done or perceived. As is proven by women starting at the same pay as men, but then men being more easily promoted because the company is run and has a history of being run by men. The ‘boys club’ commonly referred to in business where the men higher up want another buddy to go to the golf course with.
      Women statistically do many more hours of house work and child care than men- on top of full time work. Women get payed 79 cents less statistically. This is commonly quoted as fair b/c women take more off time for work to have and then take care of children. While it is true for the first year the child is born, it in no way statistically equates to that much less spanning a lifetime. Women – given that they are the primary care takers after the first year, must take away from their sick/ vacation time to take care of a child in need or for reasons relating to the family. So while men get payed more and have more personal sick/vacation days.. women get payed less and have to scarifies their personal days for the success of the family. Raising a child is the hardest job in the world- yet women in todays society also pursue work and take care of house activities, and then raise children. That does not seem quite fair to me, much less than perhaps a spot in a golf club.

      Men should be more aware of how testosterone affects their brain and thought pattern and look ABOVE it, not just get upset by the mere possibility or anger at the way women choose to empower themselves. How about think about a women’s perspective? After all women have been forced into yours for centuries… Instead of just focusing on your own needs and wants, which have been imposed on society for again yes i will say it- centuries.

      I challenge all the men here to truly take up some research on statistics on violence against women, women in the workplace, women’s pay/ advancement, and the perspective of how women must where all hats – both work and family and how they encounter/experience a world still dominated by men and a culture of encouraging young women to become sexual objects/symbols, rather than women in government and business positions.

      Does know one here see how men can look up to government and past government and see inspiration from a multitude of powerful men. Yet women see far fewer government positions and no past history of women in government to look up to. Yet they do see the new photos of Kim K. on a magazine cover. Has anyone wondered how that shapes the future young women- who are apparently discriminating against men yet being raised in a culture which places them in true* inferiority.

      Like

  47. Queta,

    Thanks for your comment. I hope it helped to get things off your chest.

    I’m sorry to hear you’re developing a hatred of men this summer, and I wish I could tell you to be more patient, etc. But a lot of the bad things that are done to women in this world are done by men. There’s no denying that fact. There’s no denying the fact either that professional, educated, or successful women—in other words, women who refuse to conform to traditional gender roles—are viewed with suspicion by many men.

    All I can say is that we’re not all like that.

    Like

  48. It’s very refreshing to see this.

    I’ve been watching Judge Judy on YouTube because I have no TV where I’m located. I read the comments because I want to know what my fellow viewers think.

    I read some terrible comments about the judge. One viewer goes as far to say that he would stick his you-know-what in her nether regions just to show her who’s boss.

    I did not respond, because it’s YouTube.

    I do start a discussion with a man I work with about sexuality amongst the sexes, the porn industry, the definition of feminism and so on.

    Two nights ago I looked up the history of feminism and came across a blog about Men’s’ Rights Activists.

    On this blog an older gentleman is speaking out against the corruption of the court systems in favor of women. He had some valid points, and observed the same things I have. However, one of his friends has on their blog things about how women enjoy being the victims, love to be raped and talk about it. I won’t say it was ridiculous, but it was pretty hurtful.

    So I do some more digging, and see more some hateful things.

    Last night I’m watching The People’s Court. It’s a short clip of the judge yelling at this law student for being rude by saying ‘that’s your opinion.’ He attends the same law school she taught at, so she blew up on him. Because the entire episode wasn’t shown, no one else saw how badly he was behaving.

    In the comment section, one person said basically the same thing the other said about Judge Judy. A girl said she snatch his genitals off.

    I know this is extremely long, but I feel that I have to get this off my chest.

    I feel like this summer a hatred for men has started to fester. Despite my past, it’s never been there and I’m scare of it.

    I met someone online who told me to read his blogs. In his most recent installment, he says that any woman who has a job that is traditionally filled by a man is either a dyke or a feminist.

    You can’t know how much that blew me away. I told him that I want to be a chemist and I work in a lab this summer, and he asked me if I was gay.

    I can see that women, in the quest to be equal, have pushed their counterparts away. We’ve alienated you guys. You really can’t have a civil discussion without being called a sexist. But it’s just like we can’t have a conversation about race without being called racists. I’m positive it’s because of our past.

    I can’t begin to fathom why women were treated as lesser than men to begin with, but I see that those thoughts about us have created this situation today.

    I’m not naïve. I know that laws won’t change what a person feels in their heart. Personally, I believe that people should be able to do what they want as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone.

    But I’ll tell you this: I loved my PlayStation since the 8th grade. I was born a SNES freak. Final Fantasy is the best RPG ever. I didn’t start dating until I was 20. I had only a few girl friends. I never discussed shoes or boys with them. Most of the time it was books and politics.

    Somehow, while not being a “typical” girl and doing things most guys would do, I was still considered very mature while growing up. I guess it’s just like beauty.

    You’ve noticed that people say a girl is a woman when she gets her period. I find it strange that while no one says a woman stops being one when she goes through menopause – she’s treated like she isn’t.

    Alex, I feel you. I don’t plan on getting married either. Marriage and a family are sold to us as if it’s the highest thing we can achieve. I don’t think it is. Notice how you never marrying may be immature, you’re called a bachelor. I’m called a spinster who’s failed at life.

    As for the guy with the girlfriend who moved away: some people just aren’t into long distance relationship. Some people need a person there with them all the time. I’ve come across a guy like that and it annoyed me. I’m probably more like you who holds the love in their hearts as well as their head, while you’re ex probably needed it physically. Who knows? She could have been going through a lot of things or have had things done to her that makes her want attention from guys.

    Anyway, this has been brewing for a few months and I had to get it out somewhere. I’m sorry it’s not very organized!

    I have to say is that I really appreciate seeing this. Lately I’ve had to take deep breaths, remember my dad and my wonderful ex boyfriends and repeat that ‘they’re not all bad’.

    I’ll remember you, Abdul, in this chant as well.

    Like

  49. Alex, you could be a great example of that old saying “you can’t judge a book by its cover”. Your interests don’t determine your maturity – it’s just how society stereotypes things. There is a great, heavy fog of societal ills we can all complain about, guys, but instead, why don’t we just find relief in the fact that we can see through them? Sometimes the stereotypes are true, and sometimes they aren’t. People would have to get to know you personally in order to figure out whether or not you’re mature. I also wholeheartedly agree with David’s post – of course, scientific observation is always good in my book.

    And Chris, be aware that a 15 year old girl is still quite young. The girl is only getting her feet wet in dating, so how can she (realistically) consider a serious long term relationship, when she hasn’t even had the experience to know what kind of guy she prefers? Not only that, but people experience tremendous psychological and situational changes during the high school years (14-18), changes which are probably more significant than the “gender gap”. I am also sure that her revolving door of boyfriends is quite status quo; in any case, I agree it indicates she is not yet mature enough for a serious relationship. It is not fair, however, to use your sole experience to support a conclusion. Also considered is whether or not she suffers individual psychological issues related to fear of commitment or something – which, if true, will probably only become noticeable once she reaches the age where society expects her to have “grown up by now”. These comments only spur from anecdotal evidence and what I remember while habitually surfing on the net, but if there’s any official research on the psychology of high school students, I’d like to hear it.

    I think what needs to be done is…lessen the focus on society, and distinguish between common lore and actual empirical evidence. And…answer the question, what is maturity?

    In fact, I might return for further discussion (and bring some sources if possible). For now, I’ve got to sleep!:)

    Like

  50. Hi John,

    Thanks for reading my blog and leaving a comment. I agree that biologically speaking, there’s no denying that women enter sexual maturity earlier than men. My issue is with how different behaviors are perceived as mature or less mature, depending on who engages in them. Boys continue to play video games long after puberty, and this behavior is still considered immature. Why? Similarly, post-adolescent women will spend hours on the phone or over brunch discussing their romantic interests, yet this behavior is never considered immature. Why?

    Thoughts? Comments?

    Like

  51. Chris,

    Thank you very much for reading my blog and for leaving a thoughtful and—dare I say it?—mature comment!

    I agree with you absolutely that it’s a lose-lose argument if you’re a man. It’s difficult to argue against a centuries-old “conventional wisdom” which maintains that as long as women are actively conforming to their “traditional” roles as wives, lovers, and mothers, they are behaving in a “mature” way.

    Like

  52. i’m a 17 year old at uni and actually finish my 1st year before my 18th. We had this same debate for hours earlier today and it appears that as a guy you cannot argue your point on this subject without being called immature for arguing. its a lose-lose situation and yet, i had a girlfriend at 15 we were together for 3 months before i moved abroad with family. i was perfectly contented with the long term seperation however after 5 months it appears my girlfriend was not and she left me, to my view showing that i as a male am more capable of keeping a relationship than she was. (she has since had 5 more boyfriends in the last 18 months).

    maturity?… you tell me.

    Like

  53. Alex,

    What a great comment! Thanks for that. It really made my day. Nothing makes me happier than supportive comments on my posts.

    Thanks for reading my blog, and I hope you come back and comment often.

    Like

  54. I definitely agree, and anything that I could possibly want to say has already been said by the above.

    It’s all about living up to standards other’s set for you. I personally have no aspiration of ever getting married. In todays society, that makes me immature. Boys in their teen years are usually into, from my experience, music and video games. Again, that falls into judgment.

    Many adults are elitist. If they do not understand something, they dismiss it as juvenile. Heavy Metal, for example. While it has some of the most thought-provoking lyrics in music, it is looked down upon due to the loud riffs, or, “noise”.

    While music is the most subjective thing in the world, and it is completely understandable to not like a genre of music, to completely discredit it is downright… immature. I do not like rap the least bit. Do I put it down and tell all of it’s listeners to listen to better music? No, I’m more mature then that (or I like to think I am).

    Same thing about cards and video games. Video games are a new form of media, and of course, it will be looked down upon. Grand Theft Auto will always over-shadow story-based games, such as Metal Gear Solid, as sad as it may be. Supposedly, talking mindlessly on the phone about how hot that boy is in one of your classes is more productive.

    Sorry for the rant, and I now realize that none of it was relevant. Oh well, though. And in case you skipped to the end, I agree completely with your blog.

    Like

  55. To be completely honest, we live in an EXTREMELY misandrous society (the west). Misandry has become a form of humour in which men “are not allowed” to fight against, the ridiculous idea that women mature faster than men stems from this without a doubt. It would be “offensive” to even suggest that men mature faster than women. So how can we have a civilised debate about it if there is huge bias as a result of the past?
    I fully agree with the above theory, and find it very interesting. I must admit though, I would personally consider a 17 year old female dating a 24 year old male to be, well, immature. She has no idea what he is capable of, and her (presumptuous) gullibility definately shows a striving to become mature, however sadly, and ironically, proves otherwise.

    Like

  56. David,

    Thanks for your thoughts. Have been pondering the same question myself lately too.

    It occurred to me also that ‘maturity’ was being defined too narrowly. I think women probably do mature ‘socially’ earlier than men, but this has a lot to do with how the respective sexes choose to spend their time.

    Men will often spend time when they are young on athletic pursuits, and often ‘mature’ in terms of sporting/practical skills well beyond the level most women ever will because that is what takes there interest and what they spend a lot of time doing when they are young. Women on the other time spend a lot of this time talking with friends about people/relationships/feelings while boys are out playing sport and so naturally men’s social skills lag women somewhat when younger.

    But I believe this so-called maturity gap equalises pretty quickly once you get to early 20s. I find it somewhat ironic that women will takl about how immature men are yet in the next breath talk about a ‘male dominated society’ in which we apparently live. How have men achieved a dominant position in today’s society if they are so immature?

    There are always risks with generalisations, but I can certainly think of many instances where women are talking about nothing much more than shoes, boys, handbags etc while supposedly immature men of similar age are talking about careers, politics, investments, sports, interests/hobbies etc. In fact, the very fact that they made this comment at work that you mentioned is actually quite immature, and you demonstrated maturity by reacting in the way you did.

    Like

  57. I wholeheartedly agree with your assertion that ‘maturity’ is an arbitrary word. HOWEVER, there exists evidence that puberty may influence brain development. Research suggests that hormones are being found to play a huge role in brain development. As we all know, females begin and end puberty, on average, faster than males. Therefore, one could argue that a woman is more ‘mature’ than a man at a younger age, but your definition of maturity would have to be ‘thinks more like an adult’. For example, total brain size peaks at age 11.5 in females and 14.5 in males.

    This is a rather dry article touching on puberty related influences on brain development:

    http://intramural.nimh.nih.gov/chp/articles/giedd-2006-mce.pdf

    Here’s an article on sex differences in the male and female brain. It touches on the hormonal effects of brain development(watch the wrap):
    http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=00018E9D-879D-1D06-8E49809EC588EEDF

    Like

    • most of this article is pertaining to cognitive functions but not maturity. More of this research is done to determine spatial, verbal, and any sort of reasoning determining an individual’s perfomance on standardized tests.

      The controversy on brain size is connected to IQ, which, is causing quite the stir due to a Dr. Rushton.

      and 14.5-11.5 is 3 years not 20.

      As of today I still can’t understand why IQ lowering shows like Sex and the City nor spending an exorbant
      amount on a pair of shoes initiates one into the realm of maturity.

      I am 24 and I like video games and skateboarding.

      But them I am also a chemist and an engineer…maybe nerdom overcomes XX.

      Like

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